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Terrible. Happy. Talks.
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Terrible. Happy. Talks.
(Audio Version) #235 - Oscar McMahon: Independence and Innovation, with a Rock Star Twist.
Join me as I sit down with Oscar McMahon, the multifaceted skateboarder, musician, entrepreneur, and frontman of the Hell City Glamours rock band. Oscar takes us through his vibrant journey from the streets of Newtown to co-founding Young Henrys, an innovative brand that's redefining the beer industry. You’ll get a behind-the-scenes look at how the brand's philosophy is deeply intertwined with artistic passion, thanks to figures like artist Sindy Sinn whose work has become emblematic of Young Henrys creative spirit.
Discover the secret sauce behind building a community-driven brand that prioritises authentic connections over geographic boundaries. Oscar opens up about the principles of like-mindedness, the importance of supporting live music and cultural spaces, and the challenges of maintaining independence in an ever-competitive market. We delve into the significance of creating real-life experiences in a post-COVID world and the brand's unwavering commitment to serving its people. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or simply a lover of vibrant community life, this conversation offers invaluable insights on balancing creativity with business sustainability.
Lastly, get ready to be inspired by innovative practices that align creativity with sustainability. We explore Young Henrys groundbreaking use of microalgae in brewing, a method that not only reduces carbon emissions but also fosters a sustainable relationship between brewing and agriculture. As Oscar shares stories from both his personal and professional life, you’ll learn about the delicate balance between passion and ethics, and why following your gut can be a game-changer. Don't miss this treasure trove of stories, insights, and inspiration that promises to ignite your creative spark and broaden your perspective on community and business.
Enjoy,
Shan
This episode is brought to you by Young Henrys, the iconic Sydney beverage company that have been "Serving the People" since 2012. Community, Music, Art and Skateboarding. Thank you Young Henrys.
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Speaker 2:So your process is creating a byproduct of oxygen.
Speaker 4:Yes, Beer company releases beer, throws party with skate ramp, artists, DJ. All of a sudden you're like, hey, you know what that's cool. Digital festivals kind of suck, it's almost time. Rock, rock, rock, rock, rock rock.
Speaker 3:Beat Seven Six Five. Try to hold us, Hold us back, Try to hold us. Rock, rock, rock, rock. Beat Seven six five. Try to hold us, hold us back. Try to hold us, try to hold us back. We will be here forever, Do you understand? Forever.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's Shan here. This week I catch up with skateboarder, musician, entrepreneur. It's Mr Oscar McMahon. Oscar takes us on a journey through his life so far, from growing up on the streets of Newtown skateboarding to being the front man of the Hell City Glamours rock band and everything in between. It's such an amazing story. Yes, he does talk about his brand, young Henry's. It's so much more than just a beer company and Oscar shares his philosophies on life and how that translates into his business models. He's such a man of soul and heart and it just comes out in everything he talks about. I absolutely love this conversation. Also, on the podcast we're now featuring Artist of the Week. We've been doing it and this week's artist is very famous Cindy Sin, who does all the artwork for Young Henrys but also other amazing big music brands over the years, like Metallica, peaking Dark and much, much more. It's so cool. So I hope you enjoy getting to know Mr Oscar McMahon.
Speaker 4:I think, he was just in our sort of like friend group, because he used to play in a band as well. Yeah right, and because he used to do the artwork for his old band I can't remember how we first did something. I reckon he pitched a concept to us, all right. He was like oh hey, what do you reckon about this? You know.
Speaker 2:What drew you to his art? Can you remember?
Speaker 4:I think just it's like it's quite loud, brash, simple, impactful, you know, which is sort of sounds like we're describing him as well Is he like that. He is a classic. He is like, I don't know, a bit of a Bart Simpson character in a way. He's loud, he's funny, he's really like lovely and he's just this wild art man. You know, he's a nut. He's out there, dude, he's great.
Speaker 2:Because it's iconic. Young Henrys now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I mean look, it's synonymous really. It is. You know, I think we're just so thankful to be, to have had like a really good relationship with you know, an artist like that, who has an iconic style, who does some really great work and does work for us, but also does work for himself and for other bands and stuff and they're like adjacent spheres, I don't know. It's really a very interesting thing to sort of unpack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is, isn't it? How important is it to you and the brand to support music and art? Is it like at your board meetings? Is it like where does it stand on the priorities? Well, I think that.
Speaker 4:Young Henry's has always come into music and art as a fan and as a lover of it, but also like we see people in creative industries as peers. You know, like we have a creative company, we make products and we actually believe in it. You know, why would you create a poster that just tells information when you have an opportunity to make something that looks great? You know, I don't know. Know, brands create things. Brands are all about making things that create a or elicit a human response. Art is that's what art does you know? That's what that's the whole point. Right, why would you just create something and hope that someone opens it and the taste wins them over? You've got to do everything around it and also that's the opportunity. That's where the fun is.
Speaker 4:You know, just releasing a beer is not that exciting. Beer company releases beer yeah, cool, whatever, that's what you expect to do. Beer company releases beer, throws party with skate ramp artists, dj. All of a sudden you're like, hey, you know what. That's cool, that's fun. You're also people get so stuck on like I want our beers to be seen in a cultural place. It's like, well, you got to do something culturally relevant. You got to like it's a fucking doing work. Man, get in there, get your hands dirty and you know if you. You know we've got an amazing network of creative, interesting people. So you start doing things with creative, interesting people. Guess what more interesting, creative people come into your sphere and all of a sudden you know life is great and the brand starts getting the momentum.
Speaker 4:You know, it's really the whole thing.
Speaker 2:How do you define success of the brand?
Speaker 4:That we're proud of it, that we've been able to grow authentically, that the brand principles are as respected and revered internally today as they were in the early days, in fact, maybe even more so today. So all of our brand custodians care about it, but we still push and pull. We want it to be engaged and also we're trying to create an inclusive brand. So it's not about just us saying this is how it is. You know, to collaborate with other people, to work with people in the hospitality industry or in bottle shops or working with bands and artists, you actually have to give up a little bit of power.
Speaker 4:Collaboration is about agreeing to something, agreeing to an outcome and working towards that outcome, and that's, you know, like that is giving up a little bit of your power, a little bit of control in some ways. But that's where magic happens, right? That's where you get to harness someone else's creativity, someone else's vision, someone else's database, yada, yada, and you actually can do something which is, you know, like one and one makes three. In that regard, you can do something which is so much better than what you're able to do by yourself. And you know, like we're a small company in the scheme of things, like you know, we're not even 1% of the beer market, really.
Speaker 2:No way, it just feels like you're everywhere.
Speaker 4:You know what. We're probably in a lot of the places that you and your friends would go, and I feel that we've done a really good job in that regard. But you know, you drive 30Ks in any direction. Ask for a Young Henry's and see what they say. You know it's not always the case.
Speaker 2:Has there been the allure of going corporate?
Speaker 4:the allure of going corporate. Look, I don't really look for a world where I'm working for someone else. I think our business partners sort of feel the same.
Speaker 2:I can't put a price on that.
Speaker 4:Well, look, our brand has been defined and created in an independent way. You can't create a brand like Young Henry's from, I think, a corporate structure Interesting. I just think that our nimbleness, our ability to fail and to try things and just, you know, for the first five years we were really throwing things at the wall and seeing what stuck and we were having this amazing experience of what feels good. We don't have data, we don't, you know, we didn't have a defined marketplace. So we were like, well, what do you want to do? Yeah, I want to do that. What do you think? Yeah, cool, let's do it. And as long as there was enough team buy-in, you know, written into our brand guidelines, it's like trust your gut.
Speaker 2:And that was guiding you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because if one of our business partners, let's say Dan, if Dan comes up with an idea, he goes what do you recommend this? And I go oh yeah, that's cool, hang on, what if we did this? And then someone else is oh yeah, actually we could. Once you start building that gut feel thing, you know human response again it's like hey, if we all believe in it enough, a, it should be fun, we'll enjoy doing it. And b, if doesn't work, we at least went into it with the right energy and perspective and we went into it to have fun. And so when it doesn't work, you go do we enjoy it? Yeah, we did, that's okay. Let's move on to the next thing.
Speaker 2:What happens when it translates into monetary loss?
Speaker 4:Does that sting? Yeah, look, there's been a few stings. There's been a few stings. There's been a few stings. But you know, bigger companies spend so much more money on drab marketing campaigns that any time that we've had a loss it's actually been in the scale of things not that huge, not like that cumbersome, and also, more often than not, a few people have had a really good time on the way to that loss. So it's kind of like we put on our own music festival two years. I think we were, like I don't know, three years old.
Speaker 2:Which one was that?
Speaker 4:for those that don't know, it was called Small World Festival.
Speaker 2:Where was it at?
Speaker 4:The first one, we blocked off a street in Marrickville, jabez Street, and we had about 2,000 people come down so sick, it was rad. And then the next year we did it in City Park. So at the end of King Street, you know, put a big outdoor stage and all that. Yeah, we lost quite a bit of money on that. But you know, looking back, really for we were this young, upcoming brand in the inner west who put our money where our mouth is and put on a cultural festival where we invited musicians. We had 30 different artists doing live art. We had I think it was about 12 different acts. We had three or four different local restaurants doing food. It was this amazing cultural experience. It was really inviting and we put our money where our mouth is.
Speaker 4:We've spent more money on heaps worse things you know like, and, in the scheme of things, whether something like that is financially successful or not, it doesn't really matter, because I mean, yeah, it does matter. But it doesn't matter in the way that if you're building a brand, you've got to do real activity, real activity that someone actually, if you want someone to believe in your brand, you've got to be believable. Yes.
Speaker 4:You know, you can't just stick your fucking name on something and stick it to a wall and go hey, everyone believe in that. It's like, you know what about a Google ad? Oh yeah, yeah, that works. No, but you know what A Google ad like? That's a really interesting. It's a really interesting question.
Speaker 2:That's why I brought it up actually Google ads.
Speaker 4:What they do is they're good for awareness, they are good to remind, they are good to capture someone, but when they come through, let's say, someone sees a Google ad and they actually come through and look at you you've got to have enough compelling activity that when they come through they go oh, actually, that is cool, you are doing something interesting or you're an interesting. You know. You're not just, you know, putting some band on and you've only ever done it once and you're just trying to hook me through a Google campaign. You know, like I think that good marketing is when it's actually in line with the core ethos of a brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Feeding the culture, yeah.
Speaker 4:What's like culture is not an act. Culture is a collection of acts, you know, and in the same way that a community. You can't open a business and say we are about community, we want our community to support us. You actually have to understand that community. You actually have to walk the walk, you actually have to do things to support your community before they're going to come and support you.
Speaker 2:It's a it's a give and take relationship dude, I really I was saying this to someone the other day. I just feel like in this day and age, people need to, in my opinion. I'm trying to work out. It's not about what you can get, it's about what you can give, and I think people need to flip that script in their minds.
Speaker 4:I agree.
Speaker 2:It's always like what can I get? What can I get? Like what do you think about people who try to create a community solely through social media outlets? Has its place.
Speaker 4:Look, community is a really interesting thing that we get bogged down into, I guess the geography, but how we define a community is a group of like-minded people. You know our main beer is called Newtowner but we sell it all over Australia now and we actually like sort of had a bit of a friction point when you know in the early days, because for the first two years of Newtowner's life we only sold it in Newtown. That's the worst business strategy ever. Like you create this product that ends up being your biggest product and only sell it to like people calling saying hey, can we buy this beer? Like no, sorry, what do you mean? No, no, no, we can't sell it to you. Don't live in Newtown.
Speaker 2:Are we trying to be like all exclusive?
Speaker 4:No, we couldn't make enough Like elitist no Sounds elitist. It sounds elitist, right, and then I think it was my wife who once said to me she goes, that's not very serve the people, is it? And we're like, oh no, you're right.
Speaker 2:Is that one of your mottos? Yeah, serve the people.
Speaker 4:Yeah, serve the people, the idea of we've had that as our company moniker since day one, and you know you can think about it a couple of different ways, but it it's a really nice reminder that your business only exists with the people that you're serving. You only, you only exist if you are accurately reflecting the changing tastes and the value system of your customers. And so when we were looking at taking Newtown out of Newtown, we thought about oh, what is a community? Newtown is a community, but it is a community of like-minded people. Why do people live in a similar geography? Because they want to be surrounded by the same things, be that different cultural spheres or subcultures, live music, food, art. You know like, Newtown is an inclusive melting pot of all these creative things. And then you go well, hang on, where else are there? Well, that sounds like Fitzroy, you know, in Melbourne, doesn't it Like? Oh, yeah wow.
Speaker 4:And actually if you go to the West End in in brisbane like oh yeah, actually, then you start realizing what a community is, actually just like-mindedness. And then you start looking at your social media, you know community and essentially that is a group of like-minded people that are not restricted by geography, who have an interest or enough of a, enough of an interest to be watching what you're doing and you're watching what they're doing. You know what I mean. So it is just like communities like-mindedness. As soon as we came to that realization, we were able to sort of break free of our, I guess, geographic.
Speaker 4:And so, looping back to your question on building a community, just digitally, I think, while it is possible, I don't know if it is as bedrock, because in a digital age where there are so many conflicting platforms and messages and all this sort of stuff, you'd have to be doing something really legitimate, really impactful, to keep an audience for a long period of time Right, because they're just getting fed other things as well. Oh, hang on, I'm going to jump over here. It's not that I'm not there, but I'm just less on. I'm gonna jump over here. It's not that I'm I'm not there, but I'm just less there, because I'm now over here, something else gets fed to you. You know, like what was the first 10 accounts that you followed on instagram, and how often do you still see them yeah, it's a good question I don't know.
Speaker 2:No, no one does so the in real life stuff. I think people are craving it more than ever, you know, especially after the COVID lockdowns. Do you feel like it was part of the brand's mission to revitalise the music and art scene, Because I personally feel like I've seen you guys around a lot more after that. Was there a decision?
Speaker 4:made there. I think that throughout COVID, we everyone suffered. Throughout COVID, you know, we came out of that with a real drive towards trying to engage with live music venues, cultural spaces, trying to get people out of the house and engaging. We live and die by hospitality. We love it. We are fans of restaurants, we are fans of bars, we are fans of pubs. That's where our brand cut its teeth and that's where so many of our friends and collaborators, you know, live and operate. You know it's a really it's so fortunate, right, um, and so I don't think it's our position to revitalize, but it is our position to support and be fans of and to champion those things, you know, because it needed it. I think we're now in this really interesting space where you've got festivals falling over and you've got these younger people who have never had the opportunity of festival experiences.
Speaker 2:Which are life-changing, which can be life-changing, can be life-changing.
Speaker 4:Exactly. And then so you've got this effect of obviously a whole bunch of different factors as to why festivals aren't working at the moment, but a whole bunch of young people that don't know the value of festival experience is going to be a huge contributing factor, 100%, you know, yeah, digital festivals kind of suck. It's not the same. It has to actually happen in the real world.
Speaker 2:It's got to be sweaty. It's got to smell Exactly it has to be.
Speaker 4:It has to be uncomfortable at times it has to be too cold and then too hot within 12 hours. Yeah, cold and then too hot within 12 hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to have both of those experiences.
Speaker 2:Look, I know we talk a lot about business stuff. It's really intriguing. I've got to know, though have you had corporate interest in the brand Too personal?
Speaker 4:To a point.
Speaker 2:You don't want to say it out.
Speaker 4:No, look, we have in the past, but it's never felt right. You know we're pretty happy with where we're at, you know? Good answer yeah, yeah, you can have more fun when you've got the keys.
Speaker 2:But how do you go, like as a leader you're a leader of a company like you're a founder? How do you go when you have to relinquish control at times personally? How do you manage that there must be things that you don't like, that other people in the in the brand are doing and you're like, oh, I'm just gonna let them go well for for anything to gain momentum you need.
Speaker 4:You know we're a team of 60-something people. No way yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're still independent, yeah.
Speaker 4:Dude, and you can't get 60 people running towards something if they don't feel equity and don't feel buy-in, and so what that takes is you relinquishing control of certain things, like you know.
Speaker 2:Where have you learned these philosophies? For other aspiring leaders I know you're a businessman but you're a leader effectively of people Like. Where did you learn these philosophies?
Speaker 4:I reckon playing in a band was the most formative thing.
Speaker 2:Is that because it's such a fragile dynamic?
Speaker 4:When you're playing in a band, you have to be creative collaboratively. A song is only great when all four members, or five members, or six members, whatever it is are all as excited about the song and they're doing their best in it. Yeah, your one bit doesn't make the song. You know what I mean. So it's this creative, collaborative thing, and the other part of it is that it's very rare. In my experience, our band never really had to make decisions based around large financial outcomes.
Speaker 4:Oh, why? Which is good, it's really healthy. So when you're in a band, your band has got you know. Let's say you're working on a record, it needs an album cover, your band name is a brand mark, and where you play and who you play with become events, brand statements. You start actually working on this brand of a band. How you look and dress and present yourself, and you know, et cetera, et cetera. They're all part of a brand statement and that was the thing that I think, and this is only hindsight that shows us this. The co-founder, richard, he used to play in a band as well, you know, and everyone's. There are so many different bands that like make up Young Henrys. There are so many musicians, ex-musicians and stuff like that. Yeah, heaps, it's hilarious, you know. Like so so much annual leave gets used on touring, which is great, like it's super rad.
Speaker 2:Is it a melting pot of big egos? No, no, have you been selective there? And very yeah, there's no place for it right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean collaboration.
Speaker 4:Only you kind of got to check yourself to collaborate well, and that includes us, you know, like Founders, a hundred percent, especially founders. Just because you were there on day one doesn't mean that on you know You're setting the tone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure, we get to set the tone. That's a privilege. But 12 years on, 13 years on, I'm 42, you know it doesn't mean that I know exactly what a 25-year-old beer drinker wants anymore. You know what I mean. So you've got to challenge yourself. That you know. It's great when you come up with the good ideas.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But also you don't want to be the person that has to come up with all the good ideas. Farm it out a bit, yeah, let other people get, and you know what. That's where you get buy-in you do, and also, like you get to hear these other ideas that you wouldn't have come up with.
Speaker 2:So you don't have like a business degree from university or anything like that? Definitely not. No.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:Where did you grow up?
Speaker 4:I grew up in Chatswood, then on the Central Coast, then in Forestville, and then, when we were living in Forestville, my mum and dad said you can pick which high school you want to go to. I didn't know which one I wanted to go to and my mum said oh, there's this high school in Newtown, that's a performing arts high school. And I was like all right, I'll go give that a go.
Speaker 2:You went to a performing arts high school.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, so I went and tried out and got into Newtown High School the performing arts, went and tried out and got into Newtown High School of Performing.
Speaker 2:Arts For drama, I was going to say not for music. No, I just assumed music.
Speaker 4:And it was funny. I had no experience in acting or anything at that point in time. Just, you know, year six kid doing whatever trial it was and managed to get in. So I was like yeah, I want to do that. So I caught like a bus and two trains every day into Newtown from Forestville and that was like that's the sliding doors moment, right. Just I remember the first day of year seven walking down King Street just looking around, going, holy shit, what is this place, you know, like punks and goths, and you know people sleeping rough and like really heavy, like gay and lesbian population. Back then it was amazing. It was just this punk, loud. You know Were you captivated, so captivated, kind of like a bit scared and outside of my comfort zone and all that. But it was amazing Because Newtown was also pretty rough back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look it was. It has sort of become a little bit more sanitized compared to back in. What was that I'm talking? Were you talking like 90s?
Speaker 4:Yeah, early 90s.
Speaker 2:Early 90s yeah yeah, it was raw then. Yeah, it wasn't like this highly desirable area.
Speaker 4:Definitely not. No, definitely not. But what is great about Newtown is that I went to Newtown High School. I then ended up going to Enmore TAFE for a couple of years. What did you study? Event and Entertainment Design.
Speaker 2:Okay, I see that.
Speaker 4:Which you know. Another thing which ended up being really like just learning the basics of design and the understanding of like design principles, and, you know, I'm definitely not a designer. I can't operate, photoshop or illustrate or anything like that, but, um, I can at least speak in enough design language that I can talk with our artists and designers, you know, and our brand manager and explain what I like, what I don't, you know, and we can have really engaged conversations. So that was helpful.
Speaker 2:What kind of student were you academically?
Speaker 4:In high school patchy.
Speaker 2:Standard response.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, you know, I was more interested in bongs and skateboarding and music, you know, than the Bongs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought you said bonds. I was like, oh, you're buying bonds.
Speaker 4:You're trading bonds? No, no, no. We're talking orgy bottle yeah yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah, but I think I did okay just from an ability to retain a bit of information and just do okay on the day, you know, yeah, which is great.
Speaker 2:Did you enjoy like the times when you had to perform as part of the curriculum?
Speaker 4:That was the bit that.
Speaker 4:That was actually the bit that brought my marks up at the end of the day okay I always did better at drama and um, I did okay at music and sometimes I did well at art. I didn't. I did okay at english and most of the other things I didn't do that well at interesting, but those creative things you know allowed me to get like I think I got 75, you know, out of 100 at the end of the. At the end of the day, you know it's all right so when did you get into skateboarding?
Speaker 2:how old are?
Speaker 4:you. Oh, year seven. Yeah, actually there's this older guy called rusty. He was the year above me and he was selling a secondhand used skateboard for $25. And I was like, yeah, all right, I totally want to buy that. He said you can take it home tonight, have a bit of a go on it and if you want it, come back tomorrow and give me $25. I'm like, no worries, that evening I'm going home on the bus carrying this skateboard, probably carrying it by the trucks like a you know dog, mall grab, mall grab. And this guy from this private school gets on the bus, he walks up, he just walks up to me and goes that's a shit skateboard. And I'm like fuck off, like fuck off, private school boy, something like that. Anyway, he ends up being my best mate. We his name's archie, and the guy that lived across the street from him, robbie the three of us became like this little skating crew, yeah, and then those three, uh, the we Hell City Glamours together as well.
Speaker 2:No shit, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's oh, because that was I was going there like how did the Hell City Glamours get together?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's just through and you used to skate together.
Speaker 2:We used to skate together.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, shit yeah.
Speaker 2:Steve Tierney told me that you're like the full fresh kid skater guy you know, kind of hip-hop influenced.
Speaker 4:Oh no, that wouldn't say you're like a fresh kid. No, definitely not fresh kid, I think. Um, we used to have a few kids in our crew. That was what. They were fresh kids. We were sort of more like the?
Speaker 2:um, iron maiden, okay, misfits, punk rock, sort of kids yeah, interesting unless, unless he's referring to a fresh period before you went sort of like rock Do you know what?
Speaker 4:I reckon that maybe in the super early days maybe I had a Shorties T-shirt. Does that?
Speaker 2:count. They were fresh. They were the kind of fresh guys, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shorties were so popular back then 100% so sick.
Speaker 4:But no, no, no, like. The video that changed our lives was Welcome to Hell, dude Toy Machine, toy Machine. Amazing that when that came out and it was like we went and bought Black Sabbath records, mies Fitz records, iron man records, just like watched that Jamie Thomas part, like I don't know every day. Yeah, just psycho, psycho stuff. So groundbreaking. You know what? One of the things that I've reflected on recently is that skateboard companies have actually always done brand really well in the way that they create a brand sort of tribal aesthetic.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:You know, like, think about old school. Yeah, toy Machine, zero, antihero, world Industries. There you go. You look at those different companies and you can look at their team. You can look at their decks. You can look at their hats, their T-shirts. You know artwork videos. They have a clear narrative. There's no mistaking. Like that guy over there, he skates for World Industries Because he's like fresh, totally. Yeah, john Cardio, that is an hero.
Speaker 2:It used to be like the whole fresh first hash. Yeah, yeah, a hash in there 100% yeah. That's exactly. That's a really good thing because, like it made up such a big part of your personal identity with what brands you were wearing. I mean, even still for me, you know Absolutely Like I'm someone that likes girl skateboards.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, so my jeans don't have rips in them. You know what I'm saying, I know exactly what you're saying, you know.
Speaker 4:I like fresh shoes with that board. Bands are sort of the same in the way that a band's crowd starts reflecting the image of the band. Yeah, you know, a lot of cultural and creative industries are like that. Um, you know like, we've always sort of applied the same mentality to our beer company. You know like, just because because it was just intuitive. It's like, well, you create merch that you want to wear and that other people in the company wants to wear, and as long as you're doing something that it that feels like you, you're actually going off on your own path and then you start seeing who that reacts with and all of a sudden you're defining this audience that you know how's that feel?
Speaker 4:it's, it's amazing is it intoxicating?
Speaker 2:no, I don't think it's intoxicating In terms of like building the ego, like when you see people starting to dress like you.
Speaker 4:Well, not dress like, but like engaging with the stuff that we create. You know, I think it all feels precarious because it's you know.
Speaker 2:Did you know it then, though, or did you think it was going to last forever?
Speaker 4:Really honestly, in the early days I didn't know how we were going to get through the year to year. What do you mean? In the early days of Young Henrys? It was so non-strategic, it was so gut feel, and just the industry was so new and exciting that we just didn't know what to hope for and what to ask for.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 4:So it was a really exciting time. It felt like the gold rush a bit, because it was just like we were just heading west into this new frontier, you know.
Speaker 2:And just sort of like moving towards the good energy Absolutely. You know, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got in my life was I had this friend of mine who was a real permaculture guru, really had a big influence on me even though I'm not really that involved with permaculture anymore and he was just the most content, peaceful, wholesome guy I'd ever met. And I'm like dude, how do you do life so well? He goes. Do you surf? I was like, yeah, he goes. How do you propel yourself down the wave? And I said well, you've got to turn back towards where the wave's breaking. He's like well, that's where the main energy is, isn't it? He's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, you know, guru, shit, dude. But it stuck with me forever. I was like that feels really good. I'm going to keep doing more of that. That doesn't make me feel good. I'm just going to not do that anymore.
Speaker 4:Yeah. It's kind of that simple. In my opinion, it really is. Every time that there is a big fuck up in your life, I bet there is a big fuck up in your life. I bet, I bet any money that there was a time on that path where you go this doesn't feel right this doesn't feel right.
Speaker 4:That's my experience, anyway. You have this little thing, but you ignore it. Now you ignore it. You're like, no, the prize we're going for is worth it. No, it doesn't feel right. No, just ignore that. And then it blows up.
Speaker 2:Do you think, as you evolve as a person and as a leader and as a businessman, that that intuitive sense has become something that you're able to listen to more?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a muscle, okay, you know, the more you do it and the more that you um, the more that you, I guess, flex that and think about it. But also test it out with other people. That's important. And testing it out with people that you trust their gut instinct and fostering a like a safe environment to say, hey, I've got a bit of a weird idea. Or or they say, hey, I've got a bit of a weird idea, damn. Or they say, hey, I've got a bit of a weird idea. And then you go, yeah, yeah, as soon as you say it into the world and someone goes, oh, and you're like, hang on, okay, we might be here somewhere, but one of the things that we've learned now is never commit to anything long-term in a brainstorm. Right, write down all of the great ideas, give it 24 hours and then go, all right.
Speaker 4:So are we going to create a large, two-story, pink, inflatable Young Henry's bar? No, okay, we're not. We were very excited about that the other day, but we're not. No, no, we're not. You know, like you've got to know. When you're in the room, you know there can be false energy as well. You can just be like in a mood and having fun and like we all had coffees Actually we had a beer, you know. So it's almost like you've got to give yourself space to be creative, save space for weird ideas and then you've got to come back to it.
Speaker 4:Revisit safe space for weird ideas. Yeah, and then you got to come back to it revisit.
Speaker 2:Revisit, man, I'd love to see your hiring process because like it sounds like you've got some really good people with you. I mean we're great people what's your hiring process. Like you know, like I'd love to see you interviewing someone for a job. Well, do you actually do that, or is that? Yeah?
Speaker 4:you have someone doing that yeah you do the interviewing, interviewing. We will always interview One of the founders will always interview someone before they start.
Speaker 2:Yep Quick pretend I'm being interviewed for it.
Speaker 4:Well, it depends on the role and it depends on whether we will often do like second round or third round interviews.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:And sometimes it's about I don't want to give the game away, but Don't give it away. Sometimes we'll ask the people that have done the other interviews what do you think and what are you concerned about? And so we'll try to sort of actually go down a certain narrative. You know, just trying to sort of unpack it. But the other thing is, the most important thing for us is someone that understands the brand and understands it to the point where they can talk about it, because really we want Young Henry's to be a good experience for everyone. Gotcha, yeah, so if you meet someone from our delivery team, we want you to have a good experience. Their sales team same. If you call our accounts team, we want that same positive experience. You know, um, so it really is about finding good people without ego, that actually believe in something that they're there for more than just a career.
Speaker 2:Okay, and maybe slightly connected to some culture.
Speaker 4:Definitely.
Speaker 2:Whether it's like art, music, skateboarding, surfing, just someone caring about something else.
Speaker 4:We try to hire interesting people, so if you find someone that has a bit of a side hustle, plays in a band, dj on the weekend, runs an independent record label, got a sticker company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're bonuses.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Really Not like. Are you too busy for us?
Speaker 4:No, no, no no.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's like you've got hustle.
Speaker 4:You care enough about something creative and interesting that you did it yourself.
Speaker 2:Dude, care enough about something creative and interesting that you did it yourself, dude, sorry, I just seen that artwork barbeach bolo?
Speaker 2:no way. Yeah, 100, 100, it's good, isn't it? Yeah, it's a rad bolo. How good are bolos? Yeah, I don't know. I had my 21st at a bolo narrow bowling club and then forget it. And I remember, like schooners were still two2, you know, $2 a schooner, you know not a middy a schooner. And now it was a small place and I remember the word got out and it was like Shannon's having his 21st at the Bolo and like it was packed and then it got and this was like you know I'm showing my age, but it was in the late, you know, 90s. So there just wasn't the rules and there wasn't the lockout rules and there was actually no bouncers there, yeah, yeah, we just overtook this bowl and I'll never forget.
Speaker 2:They were still just. We were just the biggest bunch of wankers, drunk 21-year-olds, and they were just still. So nice to us. People are like walking all over the bowling greens with their shoes on drunk, and you know they were just so nice to us.
Speaker 4:I love the reinvented bolo.
Speaker 4:What's the reinvented bolo. Well, there are quite a few bolos, like Bangalow, wambara, bulleye, you know, bar Beach, where the old bowling club model isn't reflecting the modern, like you know, community and so they reinvent it. There's lots of outdoor space, it's kid-friendly, there's craft beer on. They might have done some work in the kitchen. They might not have, you know, like it's a, I don't know it's a really nice. But you also have that culture clash of your old school rusted on locals who've been bowling there for 30 years. I just think that's such a beautiful egalitarian Australian experience, like young families with their kids running around on one green and the old fella drinking two he's old bowling on the other green. I just think that's awesome.
Speaker 2:You know what You're right. It just got me thinking like it is one of the few places where young and old come together socially.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it doesn't really happen that often there aren't that many places where You're not hanging out at nursing homes, that's right. Yeah, you're right, it's a really and I think it's really humbling. It's good. That's what you're actually getting a bit of a sense of a, um, a whole community there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude man, it's listen, hey, listen. I wanted to get some visuals up. Let's get some hell city glamours up so you were the front man of the hell city glamours, where you started it with friends that you met through skateboarding in newtown. Dude, how rad, yeah, like. I got some clips from some of your you know gigs together and it was just so like rock, like, how would you describe your genre of music?
Speaker 4:Yeah, look, hard rock, Hard rock. Hard rock Like I don't know little elements of like glam and blues and maybe metal as well, but essentially it's a hard rock band. It was a lot of fun. It was a real party band, especially early days.
Speaker 2:Were you driven by making good music or being rock stars who could party and pick up chicks?
Speaker 4:Sort of column A and B. Thanks for being honest. Yeah, I mean, we weren't the best musicians in the beginning. We got, we got better, but we were never. We were never great. It was all just like. It was just like we're gonna be a band, man, we're gonna be a band like you said, like at some stages it started to really take off.
Speaker 2:Like you know, in your early days, what kind of gigs were you getting?
Speaker 4:Just pub gigs around Newtown. We early days was hilarious. We played at a Subi party at the Civic Hotel.
Speaker 2:Subi as in the clothing brand yeah, dude, that's so fancy, our first ever gig, because that was a fancy brand, dude, 100%, they were like $100 t-shirts and shit.
Speaker 4:Oh mate, yeah, that was the funniest thing. And then we also played it like on the floor in front of a TAB at the Parkway Hotel, like it was just all over the place. And then we, just when we started getting serious about it, we started playing the Hopetown and the Annandale. And then it just started getting a bit of momentum. We started being able to, you know, book a 200 capacity room and like, oh hey, we sold that out and got up to the point where we were able to play on a Friday or Saturday night at the Oxford Art Factory and we'd be selling it out. No, it was great. And then we started being able to do some tours with people like Alice Cooper and Paul Stanley and the Angels and Rose Tattoo. Alice Cooper, yeah, how did you get that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, bizarre. Was that an agent? No, back then we were self-managed Really, yeah, so most of the time we were self-managed Really yeah, so most of the time we were self-managed. Interesting it was, yeah, it was. And then we got to go and do South by Southwest in Austin.
Speaker 2:In Austin, texas. Yeah, no way In 2009. Here we go. You can actually look at the screen over here, oscar Wow.
Speaker 4:So a lot of this stuff is shot on the… so tell us about this clip.
Speaker 2:This was a little mini documentary you made about the band on tour.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is basically a film clip, but this guy, Benny Pitcher, came with us on our South by Southwest American tour and so this footage is just us being around playing shows. It was a lot of fun and it was also that that was the tour where I realised that we weren't going to make it. What do you mean? Oh, just you know you go play in LA and New York and Austin. You know we played with the New York Dolls in Austin, which was was like amazing, and we had all these meetings Like our record had come out in the UK and Europe on this record label called Power Age Records and we had a bunch of meetings lined up with people in America for management and records and stuff. And just none of them, none of them landed and none of the shows were like that well attended and all that sort of stuff. We just sort of came back heaps of great memories but broke and just had this realization.
Speaker 2:It's like wow, it's probably not going to happen okay, so how long had you been together up until that point?
Speaker 4:about 10 years yeah, yeah about that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, aside from making good music, you did share a collective idea that you were chasing the dream.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, 100%, and like none of our jobs were, like none of us were focused on our jobs.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:It was like the band was the thing. You had a job so you could pay your rent.
Speaker 2:Right. So what sort of job did you have to?
Speaker 4:back you up. Well, at that stage I was working in bars.
Speaker 2:So I'm laughing.
Speaker 4:No, you laugh away.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at the footage. If you're listening, we have visuals of Oscar fronting the band. As rock stars you could ever get dude Doing like a mad guitar solo kick in the air. Look at that. You've got people from the crowd on stage.
Speaker 4:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Is that?
Speaker 4:a laneway festival? Yeah, that would have been Cherry Rock in Melbourne.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, keep going back.
Speaker 4:So with your job to support your yeah, we're just working, everyone just sort of like had a job to you know pay for your life and you know touring was, touring was the thing like one year we did. We did 50 something shows in a year which you know like. If you do the maths on that, you're in aust Australia. That means you're not in Sydney a lot, because you can't just keep playing in the same space, you know.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, just casual bartending, working in nightclubs and stuff like that, which ended up being super great because playing in a touring band, you get to meet heaps of people in, you know, live music venues, working in hospitality, you get to meet heaps of people started really getting into beer, you know, when, working in hospitality and when, after we came back from that tour of the States and had that realization like well, we're not going to make it In some ways, that kind of opened up, I guess, opened me up to the opportunity that well, hey, there might be something else. And when you're in the States and you're drinking all of this amazing, like Sierra Nevada craft beer and others but Sierra Nevada really stuck out as a really important beer for me. And then coming back working in a pub in Glebe and there's this guy sitting at the bar called Richard, who I start talking to. We start, you know, chatting. He used to work in a brewery, you know we start talking about beer, yada, yada, we started Beer Appreciation Club together.
Speaker 4:And then one night after Beer Club, richard's like how cool would it be to create a beer brand? That's, you know, like engaged with people, like Beer Club is. I was like, yeah, man, let's do it. Is that what it's actually called Beer Club? It was called Beer Club, yeah, and yeah, man, let's do it. That was actually called beer club. It was called beer club. Yeah, and, and that was that was essentially the moment, and the next day I gave him a call. I said hey, you know what we're talking about. Last night, you know, are you serious about that? He's like yeah, let's do it. Wow, and that's what. That's where the idea for young henry's came from. Interesting, yeah, late night drunk conversation was it.
Speaker 2:Was it a hard day, though, for the band when you just went, okay, look time to let it go. Did you have actually like a band meeting and go? Look, we might just stop now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we did Was it that simple. No, it wasn't that simple. We were halfway through recording our second record and it was just a thing where we did have a band meeting at a pub. We all sat down, talked through it and basically agreed okay, we're going to finish the record, we're going to release the record and do an album release farewell tour. That's a strange business model.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like I'm going to launch new music with Encore Kids.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, fair enough, and so you know what. That was cool, though that's like talk about going out on your own terms. Yeah, it was great. It allowed us closure. We did you know.
Speaker 2:So was it more of a relief or was it more a sad time like you'd lost something?
Speaker 4:Definitely felt like we'd lost something in some ways, but also I think it had run its course in other ways. Yeah, gotcha, you know like you knew it was expiring. Yeah, but we'd been in the band for a bit over 12 years by the time we'd finished up. You know 12 years in a touring band where you're rehearsing once or twice a week, taking all your holidays to go do shows. You know like being broke perennially. You know like it's a lot. It's like. You know like amateur skateboarders. You know Same Same thing, right?
Speaker 2:You just Even pro skateboarders.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's right, yeah, but you get so much from it. You learn so much, you get so many learnings. You know so many of our friends that weren't in bands. They're like, oh, this is the Contiki tour. I went on and we went to Thailand and it's like, oh wow, that's amazing, I never got to do that. They're like what did you do? I'm like, well, we went on tour and we did this and we were here.
Speaker 2:They're like wow, it's like you know, it's amazing, dude, you can't put a price on that exactly. It's also part of your legacy. I mean, just think of it like your daughter is gonna look at that one day and you're gonna tell her those stories and that inspiration that she might find from it, that you know you followed your heart and you chased the dream like totally so many people are too scared to do that, myself included.
Speaker 4:And also that and this is probably an important learning for me and I'm interested if this resonates for you as well After the band, I felt I kind of felt a little bit frustrated because I thought we'd put in so much work, so much work that the music industry deserved like that they should have given us a career. And I think I felt a little bit frustrated for a moment. But then I just we just came to this realization. When we're recording the second record, actually when we're finishing up the creativity is its own reward.
Speaker 4:If you get to be creative, whether you're making money from that or not, creativity is actually it, it's the pinnacle. If you get to practice that, then good on you and so many people. We conflate the idea of I'm a creative person, therefore I need to have a creative job. It's like, maybe you don't, maybe you need a job and you have this creative thing over here which allows you to get up with a smile on your face every morning. You know what I mean. Because, also, like, sometimes, when creativity is your job, it fucking ruins the thing that you love.
Speaker 2:Dude, chris, my last guest, Chris Yeo, founder of Amnesia Skateboards, said the exact same thing, said by day software analyst or software creator or something and then he has this creative outlet. You know, finding artists to put graphics on his skateboards, and he's been going for 30 years, software creator or something and then he has this creative outlet. You know, you know, finding artists to put graphics on his skateboards, and, and he's been going for 30 years. And he even said that. He said if he had a, if the skateboard company was all that he did and it became his job, it may not have lasted yeah, that's really interesting, yeah, it feels like you've found the balance with your company now, where it's like creativity and a sustainable living, sustainable business that's supporting not just yourself but others.
Speaker 2:Man.
Speaker 4:Absolutely Amazing, dude, and it gives me the ability to be connected to creativity. My job isn't as creative as I would like it to be, but I'm connected with our marketing team and our designers and our artists and I get to see creative output and I get to be in brainstorming sessions and I get to be attached to that. Really it does scratch that creative itch for me. But then you've got the whole other side, which is more the pragmatic, the business building and the Strategy. Pragmatic, the business building and the- Strategy yeah, the other side of the business which can be really taxing and can actually, you know, getting the balance right. There is where one depletes your energy and then I think the creativity is the carving back on the wave, you know.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot. I think, personally, there'd be creativity within that business side of things too. Business strategy, you know there is. There is an element of that.
Speaker 4:Definitely For sure. You know projections are basically just you're hazarding a guess of what may happen in the future. It's madness I can imagine, you know. And so to structure a business and try to forecast where we need to go, you know, when you're creating a strategy for a business, you need to think about it commercially how many people do we need? How many products do you need to release? Which products are we going to focus on? You know it's problem solving, but it also takes some left of center sort of thought and it's really interesting that the creative side of Young Henry's whether we're talking with our brew team about a product or with our marketing team or design team around you know an event or art, that is just. That's creative conversation, the business structure and forward motion part. You need an accountant in the room, you need someone with a business background, you need, like weirdos like us as well, to be coming at it from a different sphere and really that friction.
Speaker 4:Do those types hate you, though sometimes. No, no, no, because it becomes a creative process. Okay, they're leading into it with their superpower and it becomes collaborative, and all of a sudden they're getting as much enjoyment out of it as we are, because they're like oh okay, well, I'm going to forecast that out. And if we do that, well, hang on, what are we going to do? You know it's problem solving collaboratively. Yeah. And you know it is actually a really enjoyable thing. It's stressful as well.
Speaker 2:Dude, I would love for you to come and speak to some year 12 high school students that I teach, because I have really good conversations with them about life. You know, when a kid gets to that age there's a lot of confusion and loss. Like, what do I do? And the first thing I say to them and I'm sure their parents hate me for saying this I'm like you got a dream. Like you know, you want to be like a famous musician or skater or artist Chase that first. Yeah. But I also believe in nurturing entrepreneurship. Like you got a business idea. Like chase that. Like don't work for someone else.
Speaker 2:I think there's too much of a mentality in our Australian culture that you must be a worker drone you know, and I feel like you're a really great example of an entrepreneur who's just done it with your co-founder, obviously, but created it by what you want and not being dictated by others. I think there's something really special to that.
Speaker 4:There is, and you know, I think I feel very privileged to have been a part of Young Henrys in the early days and that we have always attracted solid, talented people to fill in our weak spots and to propel us forward with the same sort of energy Like our team bring in much energy as we do every day. It's amazing Like they like their job, they love it. You know like people believe in it. People turn up and they're like hey, do you know what we should be doing this?
Speaker 2:Well, even down to the warehouse storeman.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Is that because they get free beer?
Speaker 4:Could be. Is that a problem? It's not a problem. No.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is a serious question. Is there a negative drinking culture amongst your workers?
Speaker 4:No, I don't think there is a negative drinking culture. We have had people over the years that have had problems. But if we were an investment firm, we would have people with substance abuse problems as well. You know, that's a human issue.
Speaker 2:I've seen the Wolf of Wall Street man.
Speaker 4:There you go.
Speaker 2:I know what happens there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, we're a lot better behaved than that. Yeah, that's it, but I think the other part of it is what? What is interesting is that in in a modern context, I think people are less considering, um, employment as just being a linear thing. Yeah, you know, you go to, you go to school, you go to university, you study that thing, then you get a job in that thing and you do that and then you die. Like it is is a lot less like that. But all of those little building blocks that you learn along the way, it's so interesting that what I learned in science I would never have thought that biology and science is actually something that I'd be, you know, having daily conversations about.
Speaker 2:Well, can we talk about this? And Jock, can you get up the sustainability award? Can we lead into that?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, like I love that. I love that Young Henry's is B Corp certified. So for those that are unaware, what does a B Corp certification mean for a business?
Speaker 4:B Corp is a, it's essentially an international movement of businesses and B Corp is it's a certification and it's essentially a structure. Right, yeah, so any business can go and go through the vetting process to become B Corp certified. You have to do quite a bit of work. You have to change the wording of the constitution of your company and you have to adhere to a continual improvement program where you actually get audited every three years, gotcha. So it's a lot of work and it's quite tricky. But essentially what B Corp does is it creates a really good framework for people who are interested in improving their businesses. You know, and that is down to your customers, your supply chain, your employee experience, you know corporate governance, transparency, like all these different things which I think make a more ethical, um, a more ethical business. That is sort of the structure of b corp and sustainability is a big component of that, correct yeah, that's right sustainable manufacturing practices
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, and this is what I want to lead into. You talked about science. I'm sure I know there's a deep science in actual beer brewing yeah which I'm not very clued into, but can you talk to us about the algae process?
Speaker 4:yeah what does this mean? Okay, so interesting so all right, beer.
Speaker 4:Beer is made from malted barley grains. Check, check you. Beer is made from malted barley grains. Czech, czech, sometimes from Czechoslovakia. That's what you were saying, right? Yeah, no, beer is made from malted barley grains. You add them to water and you add hops. The hops is an acidic flower, creates bitterness and aroma. You then add a live culture, which is yeast brewer's yeast and that eats the sugars from the malted barley grains. It ferments, creates alcohol and it fights out CO2. So all brewers around the world are creating CO2 from the fermentation of these malted barley grains. Right, that's a very simplistic view.
Speaker 2:No, it's good, it's educational. Most people don't know that. Jock, did you know that? Yes, my family are farmers.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, sorry, we actually grow barley, that does sometimes end up in beer.
Speaker 2:There you go, and you like beer, don't you Jock?
Speaker 1:I am a very, very enthusiastic fan of beer. Okay, love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 4:So we've always tried to. You know, we've got two community-owned solar farms on the roof of our brewery. We were the first people to sign a 100% keg rental agreement so that we could halve our keg miles. We've got a high-efficiency brewing system so that we use less malt, less water, less power, all this sort of stuff. So we've always tried to do things in as sustainable way as possible. A little while ago, about six years ago, we met some of the scientists at UTS from this particular area of UTS called the Climate Change Cluster, where they're researching microalgae. And basically Richard, our co co-founder, found it really amazing when hearing about microalgae. They're like well, you know, microalgae is a microorganism that lives in a liquid environment, that eats sugar and uses that to photosynthesize and create oxygen. He's like oh, it's like the opposite of bruise yeast. Bruise yeast eats sugar, uses that to ferment and releases CO2. Like okay, hang on a second, sorry. Microalgae eats CO2, uses it to photosynthesize and turns that into oxygen. That's the opposite.
Speaker 2:So wait up, so your beers create. The process is creating a byproduct of oxygen.
Speaker 4:Yes, so we now have a system in our brewery that captures all the CO2 from our fermentation. We then have a tank of algae. We feed that CO2 through the algae. The algae eats the CO2, photosynthesizes and turns that into oxygen.
Speaker 2:And that's being released just into the air. Yeah, Okay. So how was sorry to cut you there, but how was the CO2 being released prior to that? Just into the air?
Speaker 4:as well. Yeah, just venting into the air. Yeah, so most breweries around the world.
Speaker 2:That's what they do they do?
Speaker 4:That's what they do. They, that's what they do. They do, that's what they do. They just vent co2 into the atmosphere. So we're now capturing. Capturing that, feeding it through algae, turning it into oxygen.
Speaker 4:But malted barley grains is our main waste product and ever since day one, we've been donating our what's called spend grain. Like, once you've used it, we donate it to farmers for livestock feed. And when we put in this system, we started thinking well, hang on, we donate it to farmers for livestock feed. And when we put in this system, we started thinking well, hang on, if we're going to be creating all this algae, decarbonizing our fermentation, we're going to be caught with all of this algae. What are we going to do with it?
Speaker 4:Talking to the scientists and they're like well, you know, it can be used as animal feed. We're like well, we're already donating all this grain to animal feed. So we started researching the methanogenesis or the demethogenesis properties of microalgae, and we now have got a worldwide patent on this process and we're looking for the optimum strain. Basically, we want brewers around the world to put in one of these systems stop purchasing CO2, stop releasing CO2, release oxygen instead. Create microalgae that you add to your spent grain. You can sell that to livestock farmers and help them reduce their methane emissions by about 40%.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 4:So imagine that, like two waste products, that has sorry, a waste product in microalgae that has decarbonized your fermentation, yeah, adding that to another waste product in spent grain, and then shipping that to a different industry and helping them to decarbonize. So it's this really interesting thing of these two industries that already work together, because agricultural industry creates barley grains. They come into breweries, we then use them and then it goes back as livestock feed. So you get this really amazing cyclical thing. So, yeah, we're nerding out pretty hard and we're actually trying to create a business completely based around the algae proposition, where our customers will actually be other brewers trying to get them to install these systems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for another brewer to adapt to their processes? Is it a big capital investment for them to change their processes?
Speaker 4:It depends on what.
Speaker 2:Because that's always a reluctance right.
Speaker 4:Absolutely so. It will be for some brewers. Some of the major ones definitely not. Some people are already going to have some of the equipment, so it's really going to be a case-by-case basis.
Speaker 2:Have people been receptive to it though?
Speaker 4:A lot of people are very interested in the idea.
Speaker 2:yeah, how far along in this journey are you then?
Speaker 4:Six years We've been funding this.
Speaker 2:But you've been doing those processes as a company yourself for six years.
Speaker 4:No, we've had our system installed for about two years, okay, and we're just optimizing it. You know we're still in commercial trials, basically.
Speaker 1:Sorry to jump in, but are you already delivering some of that stuff to the livestock Like, is that whole workflow already in place?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, we are well, we're still in the testing phase, right? So we've just done a 100-day live animal feed trial with the Queensland Animal Science Precinct, basically to make sure that it is healthy for the animals that they continue eating, putting on weight, their gut fermentation and microbiome isn't affected and, essentially, that they like it, and it's been really positive. All of the results so far say that it's good for the animals, they want to eat it and they're putting on weight.
Speaker 2:Amazing dude. That's like just really inspiring and groundbreaking, and I'm going to be monitoring that journey closely.
Speaker 4:It's a pretty weirdo thing.
Speaker 2:Why is it weird? Why do you say weirdo?
Speaker 4:Well, for a beer company to that's how change occurs, of course, but I mean weirdo in a good way, in that it's like I remember having that first conversation with Richard and he's like we could possibly put in this tank of algae and we were like, oh yeah, let's do that. How are we going to fund it? I don't know, let's work it out. So we pulled some money out of our marketing budget and started the testing.
Speaker 2:I mean, are these some of the luxuries, though, of having somewhat of a successful brand where you know you're not scrimping and scrounging for every last dollar? I don't want to pry, but are you at that level where you have a bit more freedom to explore?
Speaker 4:We did when we started, that the last few years have really knocked our industry around a lot. Why do? You think COVID. You know having the hospitality industry closed down essentially for two years. You know having the hospitality industry closed down essentially for two years.
Speaker 2:You know it's insane to think about really.
Speaker 4:It really is.
Speaker 2:It's like the trauma of just forgotten it. I think a lot of people have just forgotten that that happened, do you?
Speaker 4:reckon 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, man, like so interesting, like thanks for sharing all that. I want to just move on. I actually want to kind of say, like viewing you and your brand from afar, I want to say like a thank you for supporting skateboarding over the years, cause I know for a fact you've kept, you've kept some skate careers going. You know it's, it's been really amazing, like you know, because I am more of a skateboarding podcast I guess, and I know that because of you and supporting events and supporting some brands, like Volcom, for example, like you know, in such what is like such a niche little activity, you know, for someone like you to believe in, it is pretty amazing.
Speaker 4:Like even today, like I'm recording this afternoon with George Richards and Amy Massey and you know they're ambassadors for the brand and you know you've supported them, so thank you man, oh, it's our pleasure actually, and you know, it's really funny to think that me and Shane Azar used to skate together when we were kids and now we work together on like, on events. We've been working with volcom for um, I don't know, a few years now, throwing parties and doing things together, which is which is super rad, and I don't know, I think the, the skate community is it. I mean, look, it feels really familiar, it feels like the music community in in a way as well. You know creative, interesting people who are bound by a passion for something, and it's not necessarily driven by, you know, remuneration or finance. It's actually just people who believe in something.
Speaker 4:And also, you know, when you're at the skate park and you feel a part of something and you know you might be just starting out, but you land a trick that you've been working at and one of the older guys is like well done. You know, and it's like that doesn't happen in other spheres, you know, and whereas in the music community as well, when you are starting out, sometimes the you know, the more established bands, they actually turn up early, they, they watch your gig. Hey, that was cool man, that was great. You know, that sort of. They become these really interesting guess self-fulfilling building industries, because there is that fostering of young talent and support for young talent. You see that Absolutely and I just think that that gets lost in business.
Speaker 2:So much Does it?
Speaker 4:Okay, I think it does. You know, there comes a time in so many businesses where you've just got to focus on especially through tough times. You've got to focus on just like what is core business, and that's why the brand part of a business is always so important and is so much more exciting, because that's where you actually go. It's not about the balance sheet. This is actually about you've got to do shit that people give a shit about. So what's that going to be? Let's stick a mini ramp on Sydney Harbour. Let's stick a band on in the backyard of the Steyn. Let's do some things that are going to psych people out.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's just amazing to hear you say that, Just to say it's not about the balance sheet. Like it's so refreshing to hear.
Speaker 4:Nothing inspirational has ever come from a balance sheet. So true, who reads a spreadsheet and gets inspired? Like that doesn't happen. Inspiration has to come from other places. The balance sheet and the spreadsheet is a very important part. Don't get me wrong, I get it, I get it but it's not. It's not where, it's not where momentum comes from.
Speaker 2:You know yeah yeah, I was curious about how the collab with vulcan came about, but do you think it was through your relationship with shane's? Uh, do you?
Speaker 4:know what? Um, the first thing that we did together, they were doing the pink hotel. Um, they were doing a, an event at the pink hotel years ago, up in cool and gather, and um, I got a call from shane. He's like, ozzy, mate, we're doing this thing, and I saw that there's this young henry's and just I just realized it was you. I was like, yeah, man, he's well. Do you want to like come? And you know, just chuck some beers at this event? It would be super easy, you know. And so we did that. It was a great thing and we just really enjoyed working together and enjoyed reconnecting and our teams get along and all that sort of stuff. So it just turned into this really rad thing so sick. I think we've done a couple of things a year since then, with volcom did a beer together, a bunch of parties.
Speaker 2:It's real cool. Have you got? Have you got an image up of um one of the skaters? So we've got a few skaters like he, like rob paste, yeah he's an ambassador, yeah I mean that guy skates, so we're just from the central Coast as well. But I mean, you know, like, how do you come across these people? Are you just recommended or are you just following the industry as well a little bit?
Speaker 4:I think that there's a couple of people in our marketing crew who are like, especially our brand manager. He's like right into it. His name is Clint Ossington. Yeah, and we, you know, through, I think, through our connection with Amy Massey, we met George as well. You know, bobby was on the radar and I think we met him through one of the Volcom events. It's all just been quite. It's all been quite organic and which I know seems like a trite thing to say, but you know, they're all really good people.
Speaker 2:They are. You know it's funny you mention about like people putting their passion and their body on the line for no reward. Like I'm looking at Rob Pace. He was nominated for Skater of the Year and he put out this video part that was so mind-blowing, like some of the handrails he did, but some serious like death risk in what he was doing, you know, and for at the time probably making like no money. I heard he's still like doing his welding job on the central coast yeah, that's right but it's, it's again.
Speaker 2:It's much, much more than monetary value. It's it's legacy, it's pushing a personal boundary, it's creating, it's inspiring, and you know again like we do get wrapped up in in money and yeah, I just don't think you put a value on it so good one yeah, that's, that's exactly right, I think, what you can do things to.
Speaker 4:There are two balances that you need right. One is your bank balance and one is your soul balance, for you know whatever the fuck that is, but you're kind of like sometimes I know people who have got a great bank balance and they don't have anything that keeps up their soul balance. Do you know what I mean? They are not happier than people that have low bank balances and a full soul balance. You know like if yeah, you know like playing in a touring rock band when you're young, you're happy as a pig in shit, broke as all hell all the time, but it doesn't matter did it get, did it get?
Speaker 2:sometimes I like, was there some hard partying that could have brought you undone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:How did you avoid going to the deep, dark depths of that, because you seem like you came out of it unscathed. Well, some people don't.
Speaker 4:Yeah, some people don't. I think we were always a pretty good crew. There were definitely some. There were some pretty dark times for a couple of us at different times and we always, I think, we managed to keep each other honest and we had a really good work ethic. And work ethic is really important because anyone that leans too far into partying it affects their work ethic. If you're rehearsing twice a week, you know we would do a six-hour rehearsal on Saturday every week. You know you turn up with a hangover. After the first hour or two you're not hungover anymore. You've sweated it out. You know like and so just we were man, we were so hard about, like you had to be there for rehearsals, we never missed a gig, all that sort of stuff, and that keeps you on the straight and narrow to a point Like, yeah, sure, he's a party and he's other stuff, but you're there for sound check, you load in your own gear, you're at rehearsals.
Speaker 2:You're like so in a way it sort of kept you, yeah, the deadlines and the responsibility, sort of just stopped you. Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 4:And don't be a prick. Don't make someone else carry your shit into the venue, man, don't be a prick, don't be a prick.
Speaker 2:I heard you say that somewhere else. Don't be a dickhead.
Speaker 4:Don't be a dick. Yeah, and I had another guest say it, just like he's overriding for us.
Speaker 2:He's like just don't be a dick. Yeah, you know, because, like you know, I think you could be a dick if you wanted. Yeah, if you wanted to be, you know you've got. You've got everything you want in life, don't you? You know most things, all the all the checkerbox things you've done, but you're pretty nice. Like we had some tech difficulties and you know you didn't once.
Speaker 4:We've got no dicks written on the wall at the brewery.
Speaker 2:Is that in your interview process?
Speaker 4:I think so. It's actually one of our brand statements.
Speaker 2:Don't be a dick or no dicks, no dicks.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no dicks, it's just simple. It's just simple. It doesn't. You know like good manners don't cost anything. You know that sort of thing. It's true. You can get so much further in life being friendly and actually engaged with people than to walk around just worried about your own agenda with your head stuck up your ass.
Speaker 2:How do you approach uncomfortable conversations, though you must have to have them with employees?
Speaker 4:sometimes you have to approach all conversations in a balanced way. You know whether it is with an employee or a business partner or a customer. You know If a customer isn't paying their bills, you know, do you call and get aggressive, or do you call and say, hey, are you all right? How are things? You know, is everything okay? Do you need any assistance? You know, if they're not paying your bills, chances are they're not paying a couple of other bills. Maybe they're having a hard time. Hey, just split up with my partner. You know I'm like, okay, cool, all right, could we work on a way of maybe getting this sorted? Yeah, of course I just. Can you give me some time? Yep, you tell me the dates, we'll work it out, you know if-.
Speaker 2:Amazing messages to put out there.
Speaker 4:It's just about trying to be solutions focused. You think about and this is a really tricky thing I think to be really consistent with I think I'm talking personally there is going into something saying what is my desired outcome and so taking the heat out of it and actually trying to work towards that outcome. And if you collaborate with someone and you, you know you be a bit vulnerable or ask them how they are, you actually have a much better chance of getting there than going in and going 20 days.
Speaker 2:You got 20 days, you know, like just Dude, these are beautiful messages that I think a lot of people need to hear. There's a distinct lack of, you know, empathy or tolerance of other people, you know, and you're right, like generally, there's an underlying issue, but we just see what's on the surface and like, damn, if you scratch the surface like every time and again, like relating my experiences as a school teacher, I see it with kids all the time like I definitely look past the outside behaviours. Now and then, when you scratch a layer or two deeper, it's like yeah, I didn't have breakfast this morning because mom and dad had no food, you know, or they were fighting all night last night and I didn't sleep so because it was too noisy, or I had to sleep outside because dad was, you know, being aggressive, you know, like things like that. And and just, oh everything, just, and all of a sudden it just strips back those layers and compassion is developed and I think that's what we lack in our society right now.
Speaker 4:I agree with that.
Speaker 2:It does come as a byproduct of and I heard you and Jock talking about it earlier People are under a lot of financial strain right now, post what's happened in the world and inflation is is the high, is through the roof, you know, and people are just not making ends meet. And it's translating and I think I love that you're spreading those sort of messages of compassion. So right on, brother thank you. Business karma man, it's a real thing is that another one of your brand statements?
Speaker 4:no, it should be, though, business karma. Like you know, you treat others how you want to be treated.
Speaker 2:You know I don't know If I was a budding entrepreneur, listening to you, I'd be like okay, these are all the. In my opinion, this is the ingredients of your success. You've just shared it with everyone, Do you know? That, oh didn't know that I think these are the ingredients, like it's, I don't know you tell me that's how it feels.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, I mean, I think it, those different ideas. They allow us to be consistent in a in a way of consistent brand messaging and consistent, you know, way of doing business. It allows for, it allows people to contribute and it allows it's almost like your business strategy has to be set around values first, because that's the, that is the only thing that will actually have continuation through fluctuations of markets and people coming and going and all that sort of stuff. You actually need to have a set of values that is core to your business, and then everything else, like your yearly strategy and all that sort of stuff. Like you forget about last year's strategy and the one before that. It's like it doesn't matter, but those core principles that has to apply the whole way through. That's the tricky thing. Yes, dude yeah.
Speaker 4:You've got to live and breathe them as well, which is tough.
Speaker 2:You don't look like a businessman, though.
Speaker 4:No, I don't feel like one.
Speaker 2:I'd love to see you turn up to some sort of like board meeting, corporate board meeting, you know, with your distributors. Do you ever turn up and everyone's wearing a suit and then you just turn up as Oscar, yeah, yeah yeah. That's what I do.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I got invited to a I won't mention the thing, but it was basically a room full of CEOs and directors. It was about 300 people and I was the only person that looked like me. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2:Look at that dude, Theo Vaughn. Did you sponsor a Theo Vaughn tour?
Speaker 4:No, no, that's just. Oh, that's his art, that's just a Cindy piece, so Cindy's art.
Speaker 2:Man. I love his art. It's beautiful. Well, listen, it's been so, epic man, how are you feeling? It's been a bit of a long afternoon, it's been good.
Speaker 4:It's been great hanging with you. It's been nice chatting with you.
Speaker 2:I know, dude, even you know earlier on before, because we did have a bit of a delay, but thanks for your patience. Mate, thank you, is there anything you want to end on? Have Mate, thank you. Is there anything you want to end on? Have we covered everything? Feeling pretty good.
Speaker 4:No, I'm feeling really good. I feel like there was like Didn't miss anything. No, some really great little moments and it all sort of flowed.
Speaker 2:But that algae stuff dude is insane.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's See that's permaculture.
Speaker 2:It's like the philosophies of permaculture is cyclic culture as opposed to monoculture. Yes, and that's really what it is. It's a form of it. It's getting a waste product and repurposing it or upcycling it in some way, but it sounds just super scientific and tech.
Speaker 4:It sort of is scientific and tech, but also it's a really funny thing that you think about. A cow in a field goes down to the river and drinks water and there's algae in the water, so animals are finding the solution in nature. Anyway, it's about how do you find those little things in the world and apply them to industrial practices. Yeah, dude, that's the.
Speaker 2:That's what I find really like and then that cow craps in the field and then, on a full moon, magic mushrooms grow out of that crap now we're talking because they're all good algae. Mushrooms are a form of algae.
Speaker 4:They're fungi. They're fungi. Are they related?
Speaker 2:to algae.
Speaker 4:Fungi and algae are different but similar.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:I believe, interesting, because there's microalgae and macroalgae, macroalgae being seaweed Gotcha. Yeah, you know that microalgae and macroalgae are responsible for 50% of the world's oxygen? No shit, yeah, you know that microalgae and macroalgae are responsible for 50% of the world's oxygen.
Speaker 2:No shit, yeah See, I didn't know that yeah trees are only 50%.
Speaker 4:The rest of it is seaweed and algae.
Speaker 2:yeah, Dude, I had no idea.
Speaker 4:Yeah, isn't that mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:It is mind-blowing, the whole concept of it. You guys are kind of like beer nerds. Hey, we are full fucking nerds. That's rad, Like when you and your I know we're going to wrap it up in a minute, but when you and your co-founder, Rich, is it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, richard, and Dan Richard, Richard, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, got together and started the beer club. Yeah, you know, like what kind of discussions were you having around flavors and things like that? Like, were you really just getting into the nitty-gritty of the smells, the flavours, the textures, all that stuff?
Speaker 4:So that would have been 2010. Yeah, and so we were back then. You couldn't go into a pub and get a craft beer or an independent craft beer very easily. No, you know, you might have been able to get a Cooper's Right.
Speaker 4:And so Beer Club was just about. We were pulling in beers from different parts of Australia, different parts around the world Belgian, flemish, american and it was just a conversation with whoever turned up. Everyone would taste it and talk about it. What are you tasting here? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? You know we did like stout and cheese matching night and all this sort of stuff, and really it was just it was this thing that, because of the access to craft beer was not available a lot of people would start turning up because they were really interested. And what was really funny is that beer club started really small, ended up having about 120 members, and I can't remember the number, but I feel like over 10 of the people from initial beer club ended up working in the beer industry. It was this really cool little time of our lives.
Speaker 2:It's a magic little time? Yeah, it really was, it was great, it's like a magic little time yeah.
Speaker 4:Wow, pull people together and see what happens dude, I love those stories.
Speaker 2:I love you and that. So, so good. I want to talk about your gold teeth, but we don't have to. We already talked about that. I love that. They see they look rad. I'm actually looking at it going I fucking want to get a gold yeah, yeah, gold teeth man, there's a way forward it's a little bit gangster. It's like does it make any difference to how you like? Can you feel it? Does it hurt?
Speaker 4:No, like it's just normal. I think I've had them. How long you had them? 20 years, I'm right. Yeah, tastes more expensive. Yeah, yes, I can just rip through steak with these bad boys. Dude, it's about loving man Such. Yes, I can just rip through steak with these bad boys.
Speaker 2:I love him man. Such a character and such an absolute gem of a human, and thanks for being on the show. And, yeah, Mr Oscar McMahon, everyone.
