When the fervour of professional Rugby Union fades into the quiet intensity of fatherhood, a man’s search for identity takes on a whole new playing field. Join me and my guest, Austin Smith, as we explore the profound shifts in life that come with trading stadiums for the living room and legacy for lullabies. Austin, a former professional athlete turned exercise physiologist, opens up about the personal challenges he faced in the pursuit of inner fulfilment, sharing insights that resonate with anyone who has ever grappled with the weight of external expectations.
I originally asked Austin to be a guest on the show so I could tap into his exercise physiology expertise; injury re-hab, diet, and all things health and wellbeing to support skateboarding endeavours. However, instead, our dialogue traverses the diverse landscape of relationships and personal development, where Austin and I exchange tales of romance, the trials of parenting, and the quest for purpose beyond the scoreboard. This episode is a testament to the power that candid, supportive conversations can have in steering us toward our better selves.
As we wrap up our time together, Austin and I reflect on the broader implications of our journeys, from the philosophical quandaries of parenting in modern society to the ethical conundrums posed by advancing technology. The future is complex and often daunting, but it's the community and the support we offer each other that lightens the load. Tune in for an episode that goes beyond the surface, inspiring you to embrace the challenge, confront the unknown, and appreciate the intricate dance of life's pursuits.
THT gets by with a little help from these friends...
(Intro) Music by Def Wish Cast.
Song: Forever
Album: The Evolution Machine
www.defwishcast.com.au
https://defwishcastofficial.bandcamp.com/
INDOSOLE - Sustainable footwear
Code: THT
(15% discount shipping is WORLDWIDE and fast).
Sandals made from recycled Tyres. Timeless footwear for the conscious consumer.
BELLMOTT - Ready to drink Coffee
Code: THT
(Get 15% off your first two online purchases).
Pre-mixed cans of coffee goodness, Iced Lattes and more. Ethically sourced coffee beans, made in Australia, made my Musicians, Skateboarders and Artists. It's all about caffeinating culture, inspired conversations and shared creativity.
KRUSH ORGANICS - CBD oils and topicals
Code: THT
(Get a HUGE 40% Discount...shipping is WORLDWIDE and fast).
Get your morning kick in Bellmott coffee, Bellmott is owned by skaters, barbers, tradies and musicians. They came together with the idea of creating a co-pilot That’s next to you on the late night drives, early mornings on the job site or a midday pick me up. Ethically sourced beans in a sustainable can, and ready to go when you are. Use the code THT to score a discount at Bellmott.com&
Become a SUBSCRIBER of THT. Only pay what you feel the show is worth to you!
Follow on Instagram: @terriblehappytalks
Checkout the website: terriblehappytalks.com
When the fervour of professional Rugby Union fades into the quiet intensity of fatherhood, a man’s search for identity takes on a whole new playing field. Join me and my guest, Austin Smith, as we explore the profound shifts in life that come with trading stadiums for the living room and legacy for lullabies. Austin, a former professional athlete turned exercise physiologist, opens up about the personal challenges he faced in the pursuit of inner fulfilment, sharing insights that resonate with anyone who has ever grappled with the weight of external expectations.
I originally asked Austin to be a guest on the show so I could tap into his exercise physiology expertise; injury re-hab, diet, and all things health and wellbeing to support skateboarding endeavours. However, instead, our dialogue traverses the diverse landscape of relationships and personal development, where Austin and I exchange tales of romance, the trials of parenting, and the quest for purpose beyond the scoreboard. This episode is a testament to the power that candid, supportive conversations can have in steering us toward our better selves.
As we wrap up our time together, Austin and I reflect on the broader implications of our journeys, from the philosophical quandaries of parenting in modern society to the ethical conundrums posed by advancing technology. The future is complex and often daunting, but it's the community and the support we offer each other that lightens the load. Tune in for an episode that goes beyond the surface, inspiring you to embrace the challenge, confront the unknown, and appreciate the intricate dance of life's pursuits.
THT gets by with a little help from these friends...
(Intro) Music by Def Wish Cast.
Song: Forever
Album: The Evolution Machine
www.defwishcast.com.au
https://defwishcastofficial.bandcamp.com/
INDOSOLE - Sustainable footwear
Code: THT
(15% discount shipping is WORLDWIDE and fast).
Sandals made from recycled Tyres. Timeless footwear for the conscious consumer.
BELLMOTT - Ready to drink Coffee
Code: THT
(Get 15% off your first two online purchases).
Pre-mixed cans of coffee goodness, Iced Lattes and more. Ethically sourced coffee beans, made in Australia, made my Musicians, Skateboarders and Artists. It's all about caffeinating culture, inspired conversations and shared creativity.
KRUSH ORGANICS - CBD oils and topicals
Code: THT
(Get a HUGE 40% Discount...shipping is WORLDWIDE and fast).
Get your morning kick in Bellmott coffee, Bellmott is owned by skaters, barbers, tradies and musicians. They came together with the idea of creating a co-pilot That’s next to you on the late night drives, early mornings on the job site or a midday pick me up. Ethically sourced beans in a sustainable can, and ready to go when you are. Use the code THT to score a discount at Bellmott.com&
Become a SUBSCRIBER of THT. Only pay what you feel the show is worth to you!
Follow on Instagram: @terriblehappytalks
Checkout the website: terriblehappytalks.com
Hey, it's Shane here. This week I catch up with exercise physiologist, former professional rugby union player, new father and leader of other exercise physiologists, mr Austin Smith those people that just gets after life. And from the moment I met him I was immediately like drawn to his energy, his positivity, his desire to progress constantly. And when I originally asked him to be on the show it was because I sort of wanted to pick his brain about like injuries and rehab and prehab and things that are going to help me skate longer and better and maybe other skaters to hear that as well. But the conversation just goes on a whole different tangent.
Speaker 3:Austin's a new father and we just talk about what it's like to be a new father and the anxieties we have about that. It also leads into relationships as well, so we just go on a deep dive on our ideas and thoughts, observations about relationships. So it wasn't exactly what I expected but I just love that. I love that aspect of the podcast where it can go any direction and it's just a really good, free-flowing conversation and he's a really conscious human and these are the kind of people I want on the show. So yes, it's a non-skate episode but I love the diversity, and that's what I want to keep bringing. Don't worry, though, I've got a bunch of skate episodes lined up, so keep an ear out for those ones, but in the meantime, enjoy getting to know Mr Austin Smith everyone. You.
Speaker 1:I think the first half of my life really was that right. I'm sure it was for a lot of us, but I think I didn't even know where the motivation came for me to do well in rugby. So my history is rugby right.
Speaker 3:Rugby union yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so probably 20, 30 years. Done that right, I was playing professionally in Hong Kong.
Speaker 3:How old were you when you started?
Speaker 1:Oh, probably seven, Like real young New Zealand in the frost. And it would have been because my dad put me in there right, just reliving what they want. And, um, yeah, it just continued blindly, step after step, until I was in Hong Kong, playing semi-professionally, and I realized pretty quickly, like on the turn of a shoe, mid-season, like what's the point of this, what is the point of this? And I don't know, but it wasn't coming from me. It was very clearly at that point in my life the motivation was coming from other people or what I got out of it.
Speaker 1:It was a means to an end. It was so good socially I just put you at the center of Hong Kong in that stage and it was a beautiful place to be, but I was using it. I was using it for the things it was giving to me and I guess that was really the first step in my journey of starting to step away from the things that were propping me up as this strong leader, the strong man, right, and it was the first step away from that and everything just fell down and that's really where the journey started, to be honest, started what journey, though?
Speaker 1:The journey of self-realization, yeah, I guess the journey of life. Right, I was playing into this.
Speaker 1:How old were you, I would have been five, six years ago. So late 20s late 20s is really when it started to happen, and the problem was that's where my leadership came from, that's where my position in society came from, that's where the value I held really was coming from and stepping away. At the start, people were livid, unhappy, and I was lost for a little bit, and it reminds me of just this story from Brene that Bobby and I happened to be reading at the time where this person leaves the castle, they take off their armor. I'm not sure if you know this, it's called Braving the Wild castle. They take off their armor. I'm not sure if you know this, it's called Braving the Wilderness. He takes off his armor, leaves the castle walls, steps off into the wilderness, and it just felt like that, like I just kind of lost my way for a bit. But then very soon I found out that every other successful, happy person was out in that wilderness and they'd stripped off their armour too.
Speaker 3:Like you weren't striving anymore.
Speaker 1:I wasn't. I had masks, right bro.
Speaker 3:But what were you striving for in the sport? Were you no striving? You weren't aiming for the elite levels.
Speaker 1:play for your country and all that I did, I'd never had the goal. I was in Aussie Sevens but I never. What's that mean for? Those that don't know it's like a subsport of rugby called Rugby Sevens Right.
Speaker 3:I've heard of that. I've heard of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there was no striving, there was no goal and, again, it was just coming from a means to an end. But that's really the money. Yeah, but the money was a thing. Hong Kong's the second richest rugby union in the world. It's got a lot of money, but they've got no players. Have you ever heard of a Hong Kong rugby player? No, no. So they import every single player on every single team, and the quality is obviously not as good as some of the other pro places. But yeah, that's how they get you there, man. That's how I ended up there. Wow, how'd they get you there, man? That's how I ended up there. Wow, how'd they scout you? I was at a silly Sunday.
Speaker 3:What does that mean? End of season, yeah.
Speaker 1:I imagined you have your big night at the end of the season and then you wake up on Sunday and just end it. And it was at that point in the afternoon where you're starting to come down and I got a call from a coach in Hong Kong. I was just sideways but I could kind of understand what it was and I know this is a confidence-driven thing, but you feel so you start looking at yourself in a way that's really a bastard to people and I don't get it. I don't get it very well. In fact, I don't speak to my dad just now.
Speaker 1:A photo that I was checking out two months ago was Richard Branson bro. He came in the pool in their tuxedos and I was like is that my dad? And then I give my dad a call and I was like man, is that Richard Branson? And he's like yeah, those are Grimsman or whatever. And I was like hang on, have you not told me that, mate? And he's like oh, it's not a big deal, is it? I'm like oh, it's not a big deal, is it? I'm like, yes, email, call him, text him. But yeah, left him hanging. That's interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry, I want to go back to your parents' separation. It comes up a lot on the podcast A lot of people are. Your father gained primary care of you and did you have much contact with your mum thereafter?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man of you, and did you have much contact with your mom thereafter? Yeah, man, mom, it's the most heartbreaking thing. No, please go sure, as deep as you want my for a mom. I've just had a newborn right to take that baby away from from the mom. I can now start to understand how serious that is, start to understand how serious that is. Um age range. How old were you? Oh, three or four, and so part of that separation was my dad armoring his heart.
Speaker 1:We were talking earlier before the potty, about um relationships and and how to navigate some of them, and what happened in that situation is my dad had a very bad breakup and he hardened his heart so he wouldn't get hurt again, and part of that was moving to Australia. But the problem with that is not only will people not be able to love you, he couldn't love others, and that's what I had to unlearn as an adult. Right, I learned to keep my loves at a distance. Yeah, right, because he wasn't getting hurt and he was in control and he wasn't letting his partners close. But that was something that we learned through modeling, right?
Speaker 3:so he did have new partners yeah did he have any long-term relationships after the marriage?
Speaker 1:he always tried to have a female influence in our life because his number one was us boys, and so yes, but didn't love them since.
Speaker 3:Did he ever settle down?
Speaker 1:He did, and it was I'm not sure if we'd go as far to say that it was like the perfect marriage Didn't get married and he ended up having probably five years out there living with this partner, and then that was when he passed away. Then he kind of got one month notice, man. So, yeah, I was over in hong kong and it was um, just short and abrupt into that friendship, oh man was that long ago recently yeah, so six years.
Speaker 1:It was such odd timing, man. It was, um, my birthday when I got the call and I've been in hong kong for six years and it was my birthday and the routine was I'd go to a cafe and I'd sit out with my coffee and be like yo, daddy, what's up? First words wasn't happy birthday, son. I got cancer, I've got one month and, like as with anyone, yeah, when your dad, especially in our situation. Right, that was the only family we had. Really. We grew up together in the Sunshine Coast in Australia and it was just my dad, my bro, me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that experience of losing your dad, though it's like having a child, it's such a significant life experience you never really understand until it happens, right? Is that how it felt for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that was challenging. It was I'm just trying to put it into words it felt like my whole world was just crashing in. It felt like the one person out there in front with a torch that was kind of not just the anchor, but also like the way that was just obliterated, and it was a feeling of panic. But there's nowhere to direct the panic. Oh yeah, Ah, bro, so hard, so hard. So I guess the silver lining is we made it back to Australia in and around people I love, and I was working up to the main thing that I love in life, which is connecting with people.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can imagine a society like Hong Kong is so transient. Right, you've got expats who make up 3% of the pop. They're there for three or four years. Make money, get out. Imagine the type of relationships that that builds out.
Speaker 3:What are they like? Just shallow yeah, yeah, relationships that that builds out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are they like? Just shallow, oh yeah, yeah, like imagine a materialistic corporate ladder that everyone's driving a lamborghini up as fast as they can and it's a doggy dog. Um, everyone fucking everyone, um stabbing your mates in the back. Just in australia, we wouldn't even comprehend some of the stuff. That's just like oh yeah, cool, what's next? And everyone's making a lot of money.
Speaker 3:A lot of money. So what were you doing for work over there, just pro rugby?
Speaker 1:Went over for that. I was doing elite strength and conditioning and running a couple of performance centers, which is where I met Bobby. My career kind of transitioned into looking after athletes and looking after people who had the money to get the people who are looking after athletes.
Speaker 3:Did you enjoy?
Speaker 1:it yeah, man, I did initially and, similar to the sport thing, I loved the idea of it. I love the idea, the prestige, and I'll give you an example. So I'm just traveling with hong kong cricket who I worked for as the head snc for a few years tailored suits, business class over to india for the world cup for three months and you're just staying at like hilton's and you get the indian government give you 150 cash, extra spending money on top of everything, and it's just. I had an armed guard with an AK-47 that trailed me 24-7 for three months. It's just wild, awesome, right? You think what a sick job. And, by the way, as an S&C for cricket on tour, you do the warm-up, which is like 10 minutes, and the cool-down, which is 10 minutes, the cool down, which is 10 minutes so it's not the most challenging thing you run the team through those things
Speaker 1:yeah, you're just looking after injuries, rehab, um, strength and conditioning, looking after programming and, at this stage, really as an snc coach, it's optimization is making sure they don't get injured. So your job isn't. Your job's done ideally by the time you get to a world cup. But with that being said, you've got a bunch of athletes who are being paid to train and when I look at purpose which is really why we do our thing right, this is probably doing your potty and so on. The purpose in the health industry generally is helping people. It's being of service to people, and I was unable to make a significant change in anyone's life. In fact, you don't want to be too risky, right, because someone might get injured. So you might get 1% improvement over the year. Think what you could actually do with that old lady over there. Think what you could actually do with that old lady over there if I just work with her once a month. 50, 60 change to her life. That's a big deal.
Speaker 3:Man is that because you're working with elite athletes, so it's like the one and two percenters, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then so you're saying someone like an elderly or a disabled person, the capacity for change is much more vast and and you find that more enriching yeah, for me, I've clearly linked the ability to have positive impacts in other people's life with the purpose and meaning to my job which led me in out of the career, to be honest, and that's how I started stepping into leadership, and initially management and then leadership so so wait a minute, you're.
Speaker 3:You're a trained, qualified exercise physiologist. That's how you started that's how I started, yeah okay, and then that led you to strength and conditioning coaching, but you've now moved on to more of an executive role or leadership role. How, what does that look like?
Speaker 1:if we go back to that analogy we're talking about, for me, it's about increasing that positive footprint and change. Okay, how can I help a thousand people if I'm seeing eight people a day? I can change eight people's a day's life, but I can't have the impact that the leader who's looking after a team of 100, 200, 300 is having, because he's having the impact of 300 people. Who's having an impact on eight people a day, and so on and so on. Yeah, so that's pretty much how I validated myself, but it was scary man. It was scary stepping away from the tools and everything that I learned into leadership.
Speaker 3:Right, so you were getting validation from helping people. I mean, is this a big motivator for you like constantly chasing validation?
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say that's the primary motivator. Okay, but I need purpose to do my job. I'm not someone that can show up a keyboard, switch off and go home, and so it's inevitable that I looked for well one. What do I love? Love more than anything in the world, and that is helping people with their health. Really, oh, and I think it's, if you care about someone and you help them with their health, oh, does it get better than that?
Speaker 3:really that's pretty help them with their health.
Speaker 1:Does it get better than that? Really, that's pretty selfless, but for the people you love you feel that too, right, yep, and I guess I had to find somewhere I could plug that in that I was good at and, let's be honest, I wasn't good enough to be a proper pro athlete. I might have struggled to maintain that, and this is the path that I've found that aligns with what I'm good at.
Speaker 3:So when you were having success in rugby, it still didn't feel satisfying for you.
Speaker 1:I wasn't doing it for me.
Speaker 3:What were you doing it? For money, or you just don't know? Because it was just so bred into you from such a young age.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what it's like in Australia or New Zealand anywhere. Really right, your dad puts you into rugby because it's a socially acceptable sport.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He wants you to do well, because that's great. That's great. You're climbing up the ladder and it's good for me too. You go to high school and it is the thing. That's what the girls want. You're the cool group. Now, man, you leave uni. You get scholarships to uni. Now you're the real deal and don't even think about why you're doing it. Just go, this is awesome. You leave, you start paying for money. Oh man, this is sick and I just don't think. Once I seriously stopped and considered, hey man, why did you start this journey? Because just the results of it were just too fruitful. So, yeah, it was a really, really amazing thing stepping away from that, even though it was fun.
Speaker 3:So, if we go back a little bit, you're playing in Hong Kong, working in Hong Kong as an exercise or strength and conditioning coach, as well as playing, you know, playing rugby union, yeah, yeah. And then you transitioned to australia when you had that realization that you weren't happy with what you were doing and feeling like there was a lack of purpose, correct? Yeah, let's see. I'm just trying to track track this a little bit, yeah, you got up when you got to us.
Speaker 3:So then you and your partner, the lovely Bobbie, who has been on the show past guests, Shout out. Bobbie Shout out. And, just on a side note, her episode is still getting high rotation, considering a lot of my audience is, I think, skater dudes. I don't know it's good, but anyway. So how was that transition to Australia, Was it? You know, after living what sounds like quite like a hedonistic lifestyle coming to suburban Australia, did it feel like a bit of a come down?
Speaker 1:It was a culmination of three things that got me out of Hong Kong man, and it wasn't to do with my career. Of three things that got me out of hong kong man and it wasn't to do with my career. The first was meeting bobby, and I just did not know that the levels of intimacy and connection and love could go that high, just blew my world up and the very reality of the world was just blowing up and I was just like sweet, this is the thing, love, yeah, yeah, more than that, more than anything, like someone that was on the same wavelength for the first time in your life, like that. Second was dad dying.
Speaker 1:Third was this weird experience you talk about medicines on here Absolutely yeah, yeah. Third was one I didn't see coming. It's probably the thing which has had the biggest impact on my life. I don't think we've talked about it. Actually, I did this exploratory acid trip with bobby, yeah, and um, she was a watcher and um, I didn't really know where it was going to take me so so she didn't take it, she just yeah, yeah, she was looking after yep and it just kicked my ass.
Speaker 1:It's still having an impact on me today. The most wild trip and trajectory change of my life moments of terror oh, screaming for hours and hours and hours taking the hospital what up, if you don't mind asking.
Speaker 1:I mean, the short story of it is I went on a wild journey and in that journey was faced with something so terrifying and so real that I could not not take the lessons out of it and it was to do with. I woke up and I got tested in the real world and I said come out of it. But I was terrified of my mind. I was in psychosis and I had to be. The mission was I had to be okay with that and everybody knowing that I'd done this to myself, totally no fucks given about what anyone thought and I would be free. And I just couldn't do it. I was so worried about whatever I thought and I was like don't, I can't, I can't, I can't. And so one of the key lessons was like probably 10 years of psychology in one night, right, and that is. You care what other people think still, and until you do that, you're not going to be free. And, man, since that I have been almost scary and what has happened to me?
Speaker 1:but it's just completely changed my life and, um, it hasn't slowed down so you don't care what people think of you now oh, I would love to say that I didn't, but like I've come a long way on that road, I guess what it did start is it catalyzed this growth, bro, that I just never experienced in my life. So I started just voraciously reading a book a week for the last six years, like just as much information as I could and bobby is similar. I'm sure she probably told you and, yeah, it just changed my trajectory and towards um, like growth, and just started running towards all the things that scared me you're running towards things that scare you.
Speaker 3:It's interesting you brought that up, because a friend of mine just wrote a blog post about that so interesting.
Speaker 1:What'd you learn?
Speaker 3:well, it's like he. His point was that the risk is the reward and, you know, move towards the things that scare you, basically because the end product is so rewarding, satisfying. Yeah, that's exactly it. Sorry to cut you off there, but I just feel like we are. I see a lot of people, myself included, avoiding pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And the lack of resilience I see in the kids I teach at high school. Now I don't want to sound like an old guy, but I was like it's just like they're not as tough as we were. They really do. They fall apart under like way less pressure than I remember being under.
Speaker 1:That's the big battle of today, right? I think it's a battle against comfort.
Speaker 3:So when you're in this attitude, I just want to know, like you said that, like you were having like a psychosis, was this after it had finished or during during? During and you were requesting to go and get help the requesting.
Speaker 1:I was screaming at the top of my lungs what did you feel like you needed?
Speaker 3:you wanted someone to sedate the pain Like you wanted to get out of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like. Imagine being scared of your mind and you can't run away. Oh, yeah. You know right. So it's just full-blown psychosis. But you know it's never going to change unless you don't care what people think about you. And it just struck me right deep in the core, exactly where I didn't even my ego blinded me that that was the bit I needed to work on and yeah, it was so correct.
Speaker 3:So you got the download like the hard way.
Speaker 1:The hard way and it wasn't one of those things where it's hard to take the wisdom back out into the world. It was very clear. So, yeah, really really important. So anyway, those three things were really the, the culmination of a kick out the door stop your high life in hong kong and go and start living the real deal. And that's how we got to sydney. We didn't know anyone. We started again and, um, we love that, and ended up in newcastle a couple of years ago now, man, and yeah, it's just been one thing after the other.
Speaker 3:Well, there's been one major thing after the other. Yeah, you've recently become a father. Hey joined the club. Hey traveling with that man.
Speaker 1:Even as you asked the question, I felt my face, face smile. I felt even my eyes get a bit of a guarded look like oh yeah, I'm great, I'm struggling, dude, it's, it is just this. Well, depends what level of struggling. I'm struggling with a couple of things. The biggest is this battle I've got going with not wanting to lose the fun in my life that was, not wanting to lose the parties and the festivals and the early surfs and the friends and all of that and I'm really struggling to just sack all that off and sit there through interrupted sleep or not, and I'm almost like half my ego structure is really trying to cling on to this old way of living.
Speaker 1:And that's the first thing. And the second thing is sleep man, I was attached to sleep. I am attached to sleep, aren't we all 100%? Yeah, but it's different when your life's work is coaching. I am attached to sleep, aren't we all A hundred percent? Yeah, but it's different when your life's work is coaching and teaching people to optimize their health and you're teaching people to sleep, sleep, sleep and then you can't sleep, and not only you believe it so deeply that it's just been a really hard attachment to come out of. And Bobby's probably told you about our vipassanas and stuff like that, where we touched the first times of having a little bit less sleep and dealt with some of those. But this is another level and bobby's taking the lion's share of it. So, yeah, shout out to bobby. She has just been an absolute hero, takes the lion's share every single night and she's probably had two hours. I roll over after my four hours and I say I'm so tired.
Speaker 3:But you know, like this is her time to shine. Like your time hasn't really come yet. You know that, don't you? When's my time to shine, Sharon? When she stops breastfeeding. So at the moment.
Speaker 3:you know this is her role, Like this is. Her primary role is to keep that kid alive through her amazing breast milk. And that's what I've learned and I felt I'll speak from my experience quite obsolete during that period and still in this, like, well, what's really my role here? I guess I've just got to support her. But hang on, I'm just standing around while she breastfeeds for two hours. I might just get a quick surf in. I can still hang on to my old life.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes and go deeper. So I'm sure there's new dads out there and you've been to it right? You've got two little ones and you're killing it.
Speaker 3:No, I'm not killing it, I'm a divorcee. You're killing it, but you know, I think a lot about this stuff. This is quite close to home for me. I honestly think a lot of dudes are blowing it in the first five years. We're blowing it. There's a lot of dudes that aren't manning up, especially in the early days.
Speaker 1:What's manning?
Speaker 3:up, they've just got to be there no matter what, and they have to say goodbye to their old life and and I understand that it is in my opinion you can disagree with me. I don't believe it's in a man's nature to be paternal. We have to work twice as hard as a woman to be paternal, in my opinion, whereas I feel like a woman biologically. They've already been bonding with that child for nine months while it's in their belly. They've been thinking about carrying a baby in their belly since they were a little kid, you know, and so they're well ahead of us. They're a few years ahead of us in terms of that preparation, whereas really not much has changed in our life. We haven't had to give up our body. I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 3:This is nothing new. And so then I feel like when the baby does arrive, mentally they're like okay, I'm going to have to sacrifice this, this, this, this and this, whereas for a guy nothing's really changed except, oh, I've got this baby, oh, okay. For a guy, nothing's really changed except, oh, this baby, oh okay. And really I felt, for me it's it actually just then highlights how the strength of your relationship I mean, this is what happened to me it just really highlighted the strength of the relationship and because because all of a sudden she's like I'm sacrificing, I need you, but I don't exactly know what I need.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I hope that doesn't sound lecturing. I'm just sharing from my lessons and my experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's any bit of wisdom I'm up for right now. I'm willing to learn from the guy on the street. It's been a bit of a battle man and a bit of a shake-up, and life will never go back to the way it's. It's been a bit of a battle man and a bit of a shake-up, and, um, life will never go back to the way it was how do you feel when you don't do things perfectly?
Speaker 3:oh, I've seen you, that is yeah, my training's out the door.
Speaker 1:Um, I know you probably don't see the, the finicky details of that. The training's out the door, sleep's out the door, nutrition's out the door, even learning all of that, like you, just don't have time right. And I do struggle with not just the loss of the fun shit and the surfs and, you know, doing what you want, basically with with no strings attached. I struggle with taking away the things that I love and, one by one, I've watched them slowly become less of a priority, because what we're trying to do here is live in alignment with the things we value. Obviously we value this kid. Obviously we value our partner.
Speaker 1:Where does surfing fit into that man? Where does your gym? And so often I'm trying to juggle, multiple juggling balls and I can't seem to keep all the ones I want up in the air. So that's been the real struggle and I'm hesitant to put myself in a box that says, oh yeah, my job will come later. Because the healthy masculine archetype I think about, this male relationship coach Bobby and I are working with at the moment, called Tully O'Connor Legend Check him out if you haven't. But he is just like this archetype of the most healthy dad you've ever seen, and it helps me, man. When push came to shove in labor, I spent probably 12 hours with my forehead pressed into Bobby's forehead. Every breath just together, every word together During your relationship counseling sessions.
Speaker 1:No, sorry, during labor break.
Speaker 3:I was like this dude, he's good at his job. Oh, he did that.
Speaker 1:He just helps me go to another level by breaking out of some of the ways I would have done it naturally.
Speaker 3:But just with you, man. This is even why I want you on the podcast. Like you've got the desire to be good and try and be supportive, like there's a desire there and not everyone has that, I reckon. So I think that's a win. So I think that's a win. I mean that's a win. And when you talk about your friend or the coach who's you know, the personification of the perfect dad, or whatever. Those two scare me, man. It makes me feel like a shit dad.
Speaker 1:It just sets the bar too high, man, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's nice to have the want and the drive to get better and I guess one of the things that I found in that relationship I love bobby. She's amazing, right, but it wasn't. Oh my god, is that the sexiest chick you've ever met? That by that, sexy for me wasn't sexy. Sexy for me was someone that had that mindset, and that mindset was Keep going. That mindset was the sexiest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 3:What the desire to progress and improve.
Speaker 1:More than that. There was a deeper meaning to our relationship from the start, and she probably told you about it. So we shook hands early on the relationship because we both had this agreement and understanding, and it was from this guy's book called Conscious, loving, beautiful idea. He said look, if you want me to do well in life and you see me doing something that I'm unaware of that's negative, can you let me know? Okay, and if that brings up stuff for me, I won't react to you. But the deeper meaning of our relationship is we're here to help the other fly. And that was it. I was like oh my God. And so there's all these things right. When you're with a partner like you're deep in a relationship. You know better than anyone else in the world what you're tiptoeing around. You know how people don't tell each other about their BO these days. Is that the kindest thing to do as a friend?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is the kindest thing as a friend is to walk up to that man and say, hey, just quietly, man, I'm not sure you're aware I love you, but you need to sort your BO out because it's having a bad impact on you. You fucking stink, and that was the first like relationship where that became the central tenet and purpose to it. Right, and man, some of the bombs that have been dropped as you get that, hey, oz, I've got one of those things to tell you that you're not aware of. Some of those have changed my life. How does she deliver?
Speaker 3:it Like, we use the bio analogy Is it like Oz? Didn't you stink? What is it Like? Is she? I think delivery is key in relationships because otherwise you can get so defensive, like don't talk, and then it turns into don't talk to me like that. There's two other ideas to it. I wasn't talking to you like anything. Yes, you were. No, I wasn't. Yes, you were. That's it. I'm going to bed.
Speaker 1:The first is we must see each other as equals. You can never be talking down Just because you've seen something, you say it as an equal and. And the second is there is non-emotional carry-ons either way, so it's delivered in this way. I'll give you a real one, which hurt a lot. Hey, I was one of those things. Yeah, what is it? I'll just come and take a seat and, um, we'll go through it. Okay, heart rate picking up oz.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure you're aware we just had a dinner party. I'm not sure you're aware that you often take a group conversation and you intellectualize the shit out of it. You take all those books you've read and you remember and you regurgitate them and you take control of the conversation and every single one of us is thinking this and we hate it about you. I just like, in that moment, flashed back and ran the play role of my last 15 years of doing this thing and trying to prove that I'm smart, and I was just shocked into denial. I was like, nah. Then I tried to intellectualize that conversation and I was like, hang on, I should probably look at this Text. Two of my best mates and I was like hey guys, do I do this thing. And they said, oh, you don't just intellectualize, bro, you over-intellectualize everything. And my world just came crashing down like boys.
Speaker 3:What are you like?
Speaker 1:tell me well, that's it right. Who really has the guts to say the hardest things in the world to you? How many of those people are you going to laugh?
Speaker 3:I've got. I've got two, yeah, and it's funny, one of them I'm not talking to at the moment because he did that. Yeah, it's. It's obviously his problem, not mine no, I'm serious, I'm fucking serious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're my best friends. No, I've got actually three friends, three who just hit me with the honesty. They'll just tell me straight and I love them, but there's times that I can't handle it. And this one guy recently. He's my really good friend in California. I actually feel a bit sad talking about it. Yeah, he just called me out on something and then I just turned on him and it was just like you know, okay, and I just fucking hung up on him and haven't spoke to him in months now. I just didn't move because it was too real for me. So I guess I've got to work that shit out. It's not cool, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And so we're staying with that just for a sec. Are you avoiding what he said or are you dealing with it?
Speaker 3:I thought about it and then my mind I don't know why just keeps turning on him, like his behavior and diverting from my behavior, and then just go oh, but he does that too. Like that's the narrative in my mind, and what a hypocrite Like he doesn't.
Speaker 1:What a hypocrite it's what we all do, right, it's so hard not to be defensive. Yeah, yeah, but it's funny.
Speaker 3:The ego is so powerful that, oh yeah, I'll completely murder this friendship that has been so nurturing and loving for years and years, and years. For the sake of not admitting I'm wrong. Like you know, this is the fucking destructive power of an ego. Right, I'm doing it right now. It's great, it's great.
Speaker 1:But to talk about it and to be aware of it. Bro, that's like it, because then you can start to step away. But I feel you, man, I'm going through the most reactive time in my life. Why these first five weeks?
Speaker 3:Why? Mainly what's?
Speaker 1:triggering you what's?
Speaker 3:triggering you the most? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I would say, and I had to go through a few in my mind there there's a lot that's triggering me. The hardest thing right now is the division of labor is just not binary, it's not clear. It's so muddled up that we are starting to get resentful of each other, even though we're both hey, you and Bobby, oh yeah, we're both foot to the floor. But it's hard, right, and I got to say the beautiful moms out there, it's a hard ride, you know. They've got to feed the baby one to two hours every day. It's relentless. It's relentless and it's relentless for the traditionally the working guys, right, or whoever the other partner might be. It's hard for them because they are holding the house together, they're doing the dog walk and they're doing the shopping, the cooking, everything the work.
Speaker 1:And dividing that up has been the hardest thing. And to stay gracious and grateful for what each other are doing. It's been the first time where, you know, never have we counted the jobs and oh, yeah, I did that and you did. Never have we done that in our life. And for the first time we're like, oh, but I didn't sleep last night, so can you do it? And it's like what? Hang on? Since when do we count? So that's probably been the main thing that we're just trying to work out. And it's early doors man.
Speaker 3:We're five weeks in you so no, you're talking about it. You're talking about it like the delegation of roles, you know. And I remember I remember years ago, before our kids like this guy worked. He turned up to work. He's like, oh, I'm so glad I'm at work. I'm like, oh, really fuck, why, dude? He's like I just get a break. You know, I'm like what? Like you come to work for a break. So oh, yeah, man, it's so much easier. And at the time I was just like, oh, whatever, I didn't understand it. And then I had kids. I was like, oh, yeah, like I can go to work and actually go to the bathroom without being harassed or I can check my email, I can have.
Speaker 3:I can have a lunch break, you know. I can check my messages on my phone.
Speaker 1:I can scroll instagram, you know we're so free man and I think the problem is is this idea of comparison. I'm just comparing to how life was, and every time I remember how life was. It's hard, it's gnarly, but at the end of the day it's not just a civil learning, it is the amazing center of it. You got a baby who's just already looking at you and it's life-changing, and so, as much as it's fun to talk and to hash this out, like end of the day you get a little boy and that little boy is going to grow up one day and listen to this and that's sick, sick.
Speaker 1:How was your childbirth experience just every plan like we were planning. We were planning for months, bro.
Speaker 1:We had a postpartum plan, a pre we had a birth plan birth plan right, yeah, bro, the individual posters to the lighting and the music playlist, like all of it organized and just. We had this perfect idea that kept slowly slipping from our grasp. It started off a home birth we wanted. In fact, it started off being in nature birth. That's what we wanted, every single thing, every single thing that we wrote on that birth plan and pre and post out the door, man and being the person who gets to support your partner through one of the most amazing, yet one of the most traumatic experiences that we've gone through so far yeah. And then adding in a few really difficult decisions at crunch time yeah, it's, it's a challenge, man. I'm surprised that this society's not talking about that much. I rang my mom up and I said was it this intense for you? She's like yeah, how did we not talk about this? This is intense, traumatically intense. And she she's like well, you?
Speaker 3:block it out. I think they block it out. I reckon you do.
Speaker 1:But it was beautiful man, it was checking to Bobby's. I'm sure she talked about it, but it was two days of 10 out of 10. Pain for Bobby, very close connection. Most of the time we're just holding each other and breathing together, every sentence, every thought taken together, like this, sleep deprived and exhausted and just absolutely bent over by the world. And then they say go rest. And it's not rest post, but it was.
Speaker 3:So what? She labored for two days and the baby just wasn't coming out wouldn't dilate and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:So the actual story is she was in hospital for a week and like it was pretty rough, so early, early, and then we had to induct the baby early. Basically, bobby's liver levels, like bile, was building up and um, anyway, she got induced but had an extreme reaction to the thing that induced so she was screaming 10 out of 10 but she wasn't even going into labor and that went for like the first 12 hours and so the everything was just so wildly intense and we stayed in there. Bobby was in there for two weeks, busted up, and there's no beds for the partners and so you're just sleepless nights driving back and forth. I was trying to sneak into these little hospital beds, yeah, and the baby was in NICU intensive care for a bit, and the baby was in like NICU, like intensive care for a bit the day we got to walk out. The most amazing thing in the world, but also terrifying, because you go from all these great monitors and surgeons and specialists to like, all right, see you later.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you just, You're like I've got to keep this thing alive now myself. Oh shit, no one's taught me that. Did you do a thing where, like when the first few nights you had your little one at home, like when they're asleep, like you just keep checking that they were breathing? Oh yeah did you have one of those heart?
Speaker 3:rate monitors or whatever yeah, we've got that, but it was just like would wrap her up in a little swaddle or whatever it is and she'd just go to sleep for hours, because newborns sleep a lot. Or ours did with my daughter and I remember just I couldn't sleep because I'm like she must be dying in there. Well, she's next to us, but I'm like, oh, she's too quiet. So I'd get up and just like and she was so peaceful I'd have to put my ear on her, like her mouth, to feel the breath. Oh, okay, she's like go back to sleep. You know, like it was just. It just unsettled me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's terrifying having that responsibility. Nothing will prepare you for the first feeling of, and the understanding of, holding your baby, looking at it and thinking wow, you're my responsibility Is that what was going through your head initially?
Speaker 3:Was it more fear, or was it love or a combination? What was the predominant feeling? Shock.
Speaker 1:Shock, okay, shock. I'd just stare at Ziggy and try and absorb it, but I couldn't seem to get it into my mind that I had a son, so I'd just stare at him. Then I felt some things come up for me that I think were hangovers from that story. I told you about my dad's avoidance style, where I'd feel myself leaning away from the connection, almost being scared of the connection, and that avoidant pattern showed up again in my life. This time, I could feel, and that's probably what's showing up and underpinning as a root cause this idea of stepping away and numbing out and not jumping fully in right, so trying to hold on to the old parts of my life. I think it's really interesting watching those things come up and add to that what you just said. The moms are just in there. They're intimately feeding and sleeping. They're just years ahead of us.
Speaker 3:They're years ahead of us and years ahead of us, but again, like, this is their time. Their time is always going to be there, but the balance is going to change. I really do believe that the man's time is later and when the kid's going to want you more than the mother, it flips, it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, generally speaking, I think there will be a time, but one of the obvious things that I've seen is the emotional intelligence and capacity of my partner to deal with some of those things. Man, yeah. I just think chicks in general are just leagues. They've been talking about their feelings since they were six man. Yeah. And I think there's a lot that comes up when you have a kid, and I've definitely fumbled my way through it, but yeah, it's been amazing to watch that powerful lady do her thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's exactly right, and they've got a lot on their plate.
Speaker 3:I just had a thought Maybe, like our job is to not be another thing they have to care for oh, totally, but we always are well because, like a lot of dudes, like, like I said, not much has changed in our life except the fact that we're getting broken sleep and, all of a sudden, this woman that we loved and were regularly intimate with and affectionate with, all of a sudden, like that attention is going to a child and, yeah, often I mean intimacy is just gone. It's the last thing they want to do or feel like doing because, one, they're distracted. Two, they're just physically drained. Three, their bodies are still recovering from. Like what is?
Speaker 3:like highly traumatic to their body and us dudes get all sooky about it. You know, like, oh, you know. You know, I don't know, like, I think that's the thing that needs to be talked about. But I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think like add one thing to that, dude, and that's there's some beautiful civilizations around the world where that, those first few months, you know, in australia, it's all about the baby. Oh, let's get the baby a little jumper, you, you want the baby, a beautiful little toy, amazing love it. It's actually like so grateful yeah there are some countries where the norm is you come to look after the mom, and I just think the culture here is so different, but that's really the person we need to be looking after.
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 1:Boom, yeah, like that's the person who's being through it all, and I would much prefer if people were coming around and buying little toys whatever not toys, but getting Bobby what she wants, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and that's it, and I think I really do think it's hard to accept, but I just love it.
Speaker 1:I love you talking about that.
Speaker 3:I really do man struggling with it because you're doing your own shit, but yeah, 100 and I look I are 100 struggled with it. I did, yeah, so you know. But I just want to ask you though, like with you, just, I know we've talked a lot about this fatherhood stuff in the initial phase, but what, what were your own ideas for what having a son would look like before you had him? And if you want me to help you with that question, I can. So for me, before I had a son, I had this vision that I'd have a son who's my best friend, who is just automatically into surfing and skateboarding, and that we'd just do those things together all the time, you know, and we were best mates. That's my vision. Okay, but I'm learning.
Speaker 1:Right, okay.
Speaker 3:They're their own little dudes and they're going to you know. So what was your vision?
Speaker 1:You just clipped it really at the end there. My vision is that this kid will be teaching me, not the other way around. Right, like this is a beautiful, unique consciousness that my job is just to tend to the garden. Right, it's not to put my, my dad, put the rugby on me. I'm not going to continue that man. And of course, there will be values that I expect to have this kid will have. Like there's there's a values piece to it. Like, like this person's a good human knows, knows right and wrong, but that's pretty much it. Like I, I'm there to let this beautiful little guy grow up to be whoever the heck he wants to be, and my job's really to just learn from him, because I'm already learning.
Speaker 1:I mean, you've just discussed the last 30 minutes, the things I'm learning, and yeah, I definitely see it the other way around.
Speaker 3:Dude, that's like some next level shit that you're like thinking like that. Not everyone thinks like that. It's rad Thanks dude. Yeah, like the fact that you're aware enough to go. My dad tried to put his interests onto me. Oh, I'm not going to do that. I don't know. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we all do it a bit right.
Speaker 3:Oh, for sure, I'm doing it right now with my kids Because it's all I know, like I take my kids skateboarding all the time because it's like it's all I've got to give them in terms of like skills, you know, and they don't like. My son's actually starting to get into it a little bit more now than he used to, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the caveat is, you don't ignore your strengths and if you're a pro skater man like that's a beautiful well basically no, I'm not To me.
Speaker 1:You are, oh, thanks, yeah, like I don't think it's about ignoring some of my my skills and my knowledge and my talent, and of course I want them to to be active in certain things, but end of the day, it's it's their call, right, 100 their call, and I'm my job will be trying to take my biological expectations and perspective completely the opposite direction of him, because I've already got things wrong with me. I don't want to pass them down and this kid is perfect and I think my job is just to protect and guide that little guy. But it's early days, man, so it probably sounds philosophical and nice, but we'll see how it actually goes, eh, so true, man.
Speaker 3:I guess another learning I had while we were just sort of bouncing ideas around is that your children are going to gauge all their relationships, as you've just said, based on the quality of the relationship that they grow up in.
Speaker 1:And it's really interesting because you've automatically said that you developed an avoidance behavior in relationships because that's what you seen your father doing yeah, yeah, right, and so the reason right now, that we don't let the baby cry is because he is forming his attachment style right now and people forget that right what do you mean?
Speaker 3:you don't let the baby cry so.
Speaker 1:So when the baby cries, something's wrong, and there's all these methods and things like oh, they say, you should just leave it and let it cry out and stuff.
Speaker 1:So right now the baby doesn't have the emotional capacity to soothe itself, so we provide that, and that safety is what creates the secure attachment style, because it's formed. It's being formed right now, and so we are very aware of some of the negative and positive patterns that have been deeply embedded into our psychology, and we're actively trying to make sure that we don't damage or traumatize this kid too much, because we're all pretty traumatized right yeah, yeah, look, I want to go back, though.
Speaker 3:You said, like with all your previous relationships, that you were, you would have it would avoid going too deep in love. Was that until you met bobby? And then bobby just cracked your heart open because she's just a little badass, I didn't even know.
Speaker 1:Like you know, when you step from one box into a bigger box and that original box is on the inside. Yeah, so I did that with Bobby, right.
Speaker 3:You tried to do that with Bobby. What do you?
Speaker 1:mean it just happens what I could look down and I went into a bigger world and I could see that it wasn't actually love. All these relationships I had were playing to a precise pattern two to three years, precisely, when it starts to get hard right and the shit starts to come up. Guess what's easier? I'll just go this way, find someone else. But when does that cycle become less painful?
Speaker 1:To deal with it and sitting in it, and bobby and I have this saying, which is is choose your heart, which means it's always going to be hard. It's hard being single. It's hard. You've got to deal with the shit in life as a single, but that's hard. But guess, guess what else is hard? Being in a relationship, that's that shit's hard. So you don't get an easy option, it's harder. So if you don't get an easy option, if you don't get an easy option, well, okay, let's choose the hard. That takes me towards this place and that, generally, is going to be past that two to three-year block where shit does come up and you can't run away from it.
Speaker 3:So you're saying there's always going to be some kind of hard there is no easy option.
Speaker 1:You want to stop working? That's going to be hard. You want to do anything you want in life. You want to sit on the couch? Yeah, that's going to be hard. You want to go work your ass off as a lawyer? That's going to be hard. But the thing is, what does it give you? And I think that's been central to that for us.
Speaker 3:Interesting Relationships are hard, monogamous relationships are hard. Yeah, do you think all relationships are hard?
Speaker 1:I think, no. I wouldn't say it as simply and clearly as that. I know many relationships that are working at like 30% right Don't even look each other in the eyes. They glide past each other. They never fight. There's no point fighting right. They're just cohabitating and they're not actively working towards certain things and sharing their needs and dealing with the conflict that you need to have to have a successful relationship. And I see very, very unhappy couples all the time. In fact, how many truly happy, consciously communicating couples do you actually meet?
Speaker 3:I was talking about this with a friend just the other night and we both decided that, like I think I know two and one is actually my mum and my stepdad. Man, they're in love man. It's insane dude. They're like so connected, it's bizarre. And then I've got another friend in Wollongong, Nathan and Kate, Shout out and they're the only two I know that. I see, I look at those relations like that's a healthy relationship, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know, so yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's not a lot. You're right, keep going.
Speaker 1:One of the lessons that we learned very quickly was this idea that comes up for all of us, I'd imagine um, as intimacy goes, goes up. Intimacy just meaning, like connection, knowledge of the other person, like, sorry, as connection goes up, intimacy goes down. So the more you get to know someone, the less exciting it is at the start. You don't know them. They send you a picture of their boobs. Oh my god, that's exciting. Oh my god, you know what happens if I get a picture of my partner's boobs. Now she's lactating, she's seen that, and so just that one simple graph, which is connections going up, the actual intimacy goes down, led me to the realization of why I was going through these three-year cycles, and to generate that want and that connection has been an absolute journey.
Speaker 3:So you got to the point where you knew everything about him, that revealed everything, and you'd connected deeply, emotionally, physically. There's no unknown, and you got to the bottom of the barrel and went okay, let's go and some people go all right.
Speaker 1:Well, let's make this more unknown, let's do even kinkier things, yeah yeah, yeah. But then that road eventually stops. So how do you deal with that?
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, keep going. Sorry, I keep cutting you off. No, no, no, it's good. We were just talking about that at the start, like, oh, we hate it when podcast guests cut the guest off, or podcast hosts cut the guest off, that's good, no no, yeah, so Generate unknown in the relationship, because otherwise guess what's going to get boring real quick.
Speaker 1:And love is not enough. I don't believe.
Speaker 3:Well, that needs work.
Speaker 1:That's where the work comes. That's where the work starts.
Speaker 3:What does it look like then? Go, give us actual, practical examples. Go.
Speaker 1:Right, bobby and I alternate date nights you have a date night.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you put date nights in check. I'm just going to type this out. Keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Bobby and I, the job is to create an unexpected, exciting date. Genuinely, you've got to excite them. Okay, I'll give you an example. I came home the other day Bobby's on her hands and knees Sorry on her knees. The other day, Bobby's on her hands and knees sorry on her knees, not hands and knees and it's a massage parlor. She's done the whole house up, she's done a menu up on the door and I get to tick these boxes and she doesn't break character the whole night. It's like a full thing. And then you know Like she's your masseuse.
Speaker 3:Yeah, even recently, since she's had Ziggy During the pregnancy.
Speaker 1:Oh, while she's pregnant, she's early doors, but yeah, she's been, you fucking struck goddamn gold with that one.
Speaker 1:Keep going, keep going. Alright, my turn. I'm like shit, how am I going to raise the bar, right? Oh shit, yeah, there's pressure now. So I the last one I've done was I wasn't home. She gets a note on the thing. You're a single lady tonight. Keep your I've done was I wasn't home. She gets a note on the thing You're a single lady tonight. Get your shit together. You're going out to town. This is the bar you're going to go. You're going to be picked up by a stranger and we'll see where it goes. Oh, it's pretty lame really. No, that's all right.
Speaker 3:So she rocks up and then you rock up randomly. I pick her up at the bar as a free-time nurture and you just sit down and start getting a conversation, but like many ways.
Speaker 1:But there's got to be unknown, because if there's no unknown there is no excitement. And without excitement, bro, that fire no unknown, no excitement Act mysterious.
Speaker 3:Don't go too deep emotionally too early, sorry, keep going.
Speaker 1:Be a lone wolf, sorry, keep going. Be a lone wolf, sorry, keep going. Yeah, it's been a huge and life-changing journey going through that because I was just not equipped with the skills to deal with what comes up in a healthy relationship and I've talked about a couple of things tonight, but it's pretty much, across the board, right. Most of us guys are really not equipped with the drive or even any of the tools to deal with like you were talking about, like emotional overwhelm before, where you're snapping at your own friends, like this sort of stuff. Man, I just wish we were taught when younger.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, man, and that's it. And you know, people go as you get older. They're like oh, you should know better. It's like actually no, because what's happened is I've just reinforced the same behavior patterns for a longer period of time and they're so ingrained and entrenched I don't know any other way to behave. And you know, if you don't deal with them and do the work on yourself, you turn into the bitter old man, the grumpy old guy, you know.
Speaker 1:And I can see how it happens now, now that I'm yeah, all of us right. It's hard, and the funniest one, as an adult, I think is when you're regurgitating the words that you hated hearing from your parents and you're saying the same thing, and then you hear yourself saying that thing that you hated hearing from your parents, and you're saying the same thing, and then you hear yourself saying that thing that you despised about with your parents and you realize like, oh shit, I fell down the same hole.
Speaker 3:Oh dude it's gnarly your kids become your greatest teachers.
Speaker 1:I swear to.
Speaker 3:God. Because, yeah you just all of a sudden, it's like you do things. Oh shit, my dad used to do that and I used to hate that and. I did it yes. I did it Fuck why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Damn this experience, man. It's such a pain in the ass having to be a human man. Fuck, I can't deal with it anymore.
Speaker 1:Don't forget.
Speaker 3:Anyway, no, I can, I can do it, I. Yeah, you got two little ones who are amazing, bro, yeah, so, like, so you were sort of saying that like the intensity of feelings you had for bobby and the and the immediate and the connection was enough for you to just reform and re recalibrate how you'd been behaving in relationships. Is that what it was? It was just like I wasn't. It took it took that for the change to occur.
Speaker 1:It took a strong woman to take me from my idea and my construct that I had of what a relationship was. I was in control, I was a leader, I had the keys, and it was unhealthy unhealthy masculine archetype man. I clicked my fingers. You know this was kind of the way. It just was Really unhealthy and unhappy relationships too right. And then the first kind of run-in with this happened where something she was doing was bringing up something for me that I needed her to change. The thing was we were at a festival in budapest called siget. It's like a seven day. It's one of europe's biggest festival, big, big thing and she walks out of her tent we've got 20 of our friends there and she walks out with her boobs out. And this was early on in the relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and is it? And like just, straight boobs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like not painted or anything.
Speaker 1:Nah, wearing this like cool, sexy outfit, like no top on, no top on, and so we hadn't really talked, we hadn't done this right. And it's not a big deal these days In fact it's not a big deal at all, but at this stage it was a big deal. And I remember, walking over to the next act, I said, bob, can I just have a quick word to you? This is bringing up some things for me, do you mind? Kind of thing. And she's like, of course, thanks for sharing. All right, let's go. And I was like well, hang on. She's like, well, what's it bringing up for you? And I was like, well, firstly, this is something intimate that I thought we'd talk about. You know, something that we shared that was kind of special in ours. Second, at this stage this is where I was nudity is line of sight.
Speaker 1:I feel bad and I'm aware of all the kids and families and people who don't want to see that and that is an invasion of their privacy. I feel uncomfortable about that. And third, my friends are here and my friends are struggling to connect with you and they get to see you once a year and I'm uncomfortable with all of these things. I use those excuses, but it was really. I was feeling it together and she goes okay, let's go. And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa. And the analogy we used is she says. She said I'm not here for you to control me, I'm here for you to worship me. And that was the flip and it's all right. What am I trying to do? Dim her light to make me feel more comfortable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's not the way to go so she felt liberated and free and why would I give that? And so comfortable. And she loves her body and she wanted to show it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so what happens when people make us feel insecure? Is we try and dim their lights? Yeah, we do, and so she showed me a way in which the candle that she was burning was allowed to be encouraged to go my candle and the relationship candle, all of them. The goal was for everyone just to be lit up, and it was such an engaging way to live and, yeah, that's kind of where it started.
Speaker 3:Has jealousy come up in your relationship much over the years.
Speaker 1:No, and we've actively done work on it. I used to feel jealousy, but I did a lot of work to get through it, and I never wanted to feel jealousy, but I did a lot of work to get through it and I never wanted to feel jealousy. But, man, I did some wild things to make sure that I never felt that emotion.
Speaker 3:Like what.
Speaker 1:Like I'd sit there in meditation, basically cycler sessions, imagining my best friends making love to her next door and wanting to be happy for them, and I'd sit there until I felt happy, because if she wanted it and I want the best for her, that's what it means then I want that for them.
Speaker 3:No, you wouldn't draw the line there at her having sex with someone else.
Speaker 1:If she truly thinks that's what she wants to do, go, bobby, I'm not here to put shackles on you.
Speaker 3:That wouldn't be the end of the relationship.
Speaker 1:That is a. If she wanted to go another way, I'd probably. I want her to get what she wants and she wants me to get what I want, and there are no shackles. We're staying with each other, not from shackles and fears, because I want the best for you. If you truly think you can find someone better than me, please, I want the best for you, and so it's like that mindset does that hit. It's hard to swallow, but but why? I think it just comes back for me to the central idea of if I love her and want the best for her, then I should want the best for her, and if she wants that, that's why I want that and that's with my friendships too, and even if that hits bad for me, oh well, I'll deal with that, but that's got nothing to do with them that challenge.
Speaker 3:That would challenge a lot of people to their core, in my opinion, because what do? We. It's funny because it does it challenges, like you hear a lot of couples go oh yeah, we're like we just let each other do whatever we want, like until it threatens their security, right. And then it's like oh no, no, no, no, no, no, you know yeah, and and do you?
Speaker 1:so the work bobby and I've done to not be emotionally reactive. We've started right, we put our foot in the pond, but in July, man, I'm going to my first darkness retreat. What does?
Speaker 3:that mean.
Speaker 1:Did Bobby tell you about our Vipassanas that we've done?
Speaker 3:She talked about her experience with the Vipassana on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Okay, so imagine that in pitch black and dead silence. Same thing by yourself yourself. How long for a recommended seven?
Speaker 1:why do you feel like you need to do it because I think being emotionally reactive in life is going to hurt others or me. And it helps me to see there's this great quote that I heard and it said some people sleep in the day, others awaken in the night. And it just resonated with me because that sort of hard and that sort of challenge is where I can't escape looking at who I really am and that's where I'm waking up, and so, as hard and scary as that is, that's one of the things that scared me, so I have to run towards it like, like you said earlier yeah, yep, like if I find towards the fear.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, and do what, do what scares you it?
Speaker 1:sucks, right. It sucks living that, but it's also it's always going to be hard, right. I mean, it's going to be just as hard not doing that and it's not getting the things that I might get from it than it is going through it.
Speaker 3:Yeah man you really like. You've really got me thinking about what you said earlier about the when the excitement in a relationship dims, that's when relationships crack open, because it always is around the two to three year mark, because, like that excitement can be, can sustain for quite a long time, right it?
Speaker 1:can. It can Like you start away from each other, right, and you are both. Especially if you're attracted, you're fighting to get as close as you possibly can to your living, your forge they call it forge. If you go so far to forge with someone, that's also bad. Because a healthy relationship three things right, it's it's them, it's you and it's a relationship you need all three. And there's this really good analogy that shows the opposite of old marriages. They used to take two candles to the altar. Yeah, blow them out and light one for the relationship. The idea is no, no, we need to maintain those three candles and the way in which we manage our excitement about each other will be directly correlated with our intimacy, our sex life, our excitement. I need to, and I want to sit down and understand the other person, to give a shit about them. And, yeah, I think that two to three years generally is when shit comes up right.
Speaker 3:But what about when there's like two people who are in love and they've been together for a long time, but then they're craving a physical connection with a different person?
Speaker 3:but doesn't necessarily mean they don't love their partner person but doesn't necessarily mean they don't love their partner. Why do people feel a betrayal when that person does go and seek a physical connection with someone? And it's so common and it seemed like the people cheat in relationships and I guess interesting that the term cheat is the predominant word used to describe that situation. Yeah, I mean, why is there a betrayal? Is it because, like you're sort of saying that the two parties should be like sovereign and then joined with a relationship, but they should still be able to maintain their identity and be on their own journey, which is then supported by the other person?
Speaker 1:correct. I'm saying that we put them together what do you mean?
Speaker 1:we put them together we put sex and marriage together like okay, originally right that idea, but you look at other civilizations yeah where anyone that has sex with that lady during the time she got pregnant is a father and there's a loving collaboration of fathers and, I think, jealousy and when that comes into the situation, when there's a rupture and I'm no relationship expert, let's be clear about that but there's a rupture of trust and so if Bobby did want to go and explore other options, that's a conversation and that's something like. The trust is about what you and your partner are working towards and I think that undermines it all if you go and do it behind the back, right, because it's the lie of omission, it's the integrity is absolutely gone and broken. Yeah, and you can't come back from that.
Speaker 3:yeah, or you can, but it's very hard interesting and you can't come back from that, or you?
Speaker 1:can, but it's very hard.
Speaker 3:Interesting. Can we talk about health and exercise physiology for all my skater?
Speaker 1:friends who keep getting injured, yeah what do you want to know?
Speaker 3:Tell me about some prehab stuff you do. Do you do prehab Because you train hard, right? I know you train every day. I've seen you in the gym. You're a fucking machine. So let's talk about the importance of prehab, Right for a skater.
Speaker 1:So firstly, I would say skaters are probably the least likely to go and engage with an elite strength and conditioning coach. It's just not really in the culture, is it?
Speaker 3:Well, it's becoming more predominant since the advent of things like the Olympics and the Extreme Games, x Games.
Speaker 1:sorry, true true, and those kids are shredding, yeah, yeah. So the first thing I would say is we understand that there are similar, regular injuries and weaknesses across the board. There are patterns, just like anything. There are patterns and I would imagine, without going into it, there are a lot of patterns around injuries and prehab that's needed for the ankle, the shank, the knees I'd imagine a lot of sore knees the back and the imbalances that build up from going one way.
Speaker 3:You're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's probably where you'd start, right. Okay, so what does it look like? Yeah, a prehab routine. Like obviously don't take this as your advice, but what do you mean? I would say a no-brainer for a skater no-brainer would be working on ankle stiffness number one.
Speaker 1:So what that means is, um, imagine going up into tippy toes, yeah, and walking in tippy toes for 100 meters with the complete ankle stiffness like that's the sort of stiffness that's needed for the type of athletes that are working at the pro level, even in skating right, yeah, the strengthening the ankles and the knees and so on.
Speaker 3:It's the same for so many sports yeah yeah, yeah, so I would be 100.
Speaker 1:If you're serious about skating, you could think about it as missing 20%. I reckon like that level.
Speaker 3:I feel like it would be similar to what basketballs would have to do because of the jumping and landing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and there's actually a guy.
Speaker 3:I had him on the podcast years ago. What was his name? Dan Bardello. He's the first person to actually come out and go and create a skateboarding strength and conditioning program and rehab and stuff. Yeah, I should go revisit that but it's good to revisit and I think, like, do you think skaters should be aside from just skateboarding? They should be doing strength and conditioning to supplement ifing? If they're serious, yeah, if they're serious yeah, let me ask you a question. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Would a stronger, more injury-proof, more consistent, more robust athlete be a better skater? Yes, okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, you get beat up. You do, you get beat up. You're always falling over and rolling on concrete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so definitely, man, and particularly with skate.
Speaker 3:Such an athletic sport man you reckon as someone you know from the outside, looking in, you can appreciate the athleticism well, it's 50 50, right, it's skill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 50, 50 with athleticism. Okay, from the outside in, I have no idea what it's like on the inside. Yeah, would you say, that's about oh for sure.
Speaker 3:Like, yeah, it does, it takes. Well, there's a real mental component to it. Like, so skill, I guess, comes with a real mental component. When you're developing skill, there's a lot of cognitive, I guess, process involved in that and so you've got to develop the ability to learn in that realm. That's exhausting. And then you add the physical aspect of it, it's just exhausting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, I mean, when I first started to get into sports psych as an athlete myself, they asked me a question at the start of it and I'll ask you now Okay, I'm getting a consultation here how much of skating do you think is mental and how much of it at the top level competing? How much is mental and how much is physical?
Speaker 3:I actually think it's like. It's like 70, 30, which way mental 70 mental.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mean like separating the one percent. That's what they've got the head game right I think so yeah, how much of your training as a skater is mental and how much is physical?
Speaker 3:training like actually in the gym for it just. However, you're training to be a better skater uh well, I don't know, like like actually going skating and practicing tricks well, however, right.
Speaker 1:So this question was asked to me about rugby and I was like, yeah, fair, fair bits mental mate like 40, and he's like sweet, 40 of your training needs to be psych and I was like, oh, 40 of it, okay. I was like, well, whatever you say, right, yeah. But yeah, definitely the importance at the elite art. Like you know, our coach, jackie shout out just made the olympics.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at that level head game okay because the work's been done and the the the skills are in there. It's just able to produce them in those sort of clutch moments. Yeah. Like an Olympic event or a skate comp. When you've got, they get like skate comps, get like 45 seconds or a minute to do one run. Yeah. Okay, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So then I mean to wrap it up without going into a health lecture. I don't want to put you on the spot. I would say looking after your body with either prehab or a strength and conditioning program and doing your mental work is going to significantly make you a more consistent, more robust, more explosive, better athlete across the board. And if you're serious about it, 100% should be part of your regime.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's your diet like?
Speaker 1:diet. Out the door now, man, but it's yeah.
Speaker 3:To be honest, I've never really focused too much on on diet, um what yeah, I find that hard to believe eat as much as I can is the situation is that because you're just burning so much fuel all the time and you just need to just keep refueling?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not sure, I'm really bad on a diet, really bad on restriction, but I don't do well either.
Speaker 3:How many days a week are you in the gym? Six days, yeah, and like lifting pretty heavy weights most days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think I'm pretty similar to most CrossFit guys. I'll be doing six or seven sessions, probably adding a few runs or something. Do you reckon?
Speaker 3:all dudes need to lift weights. Yes, why?
Speaker 1:Well, t-levels? Yeah, forget the one percenters, even though that's not a one percenter. Yeah, it is important for your health. It is important for your mental health. It is important for your health. It is important for your mental health. It is important for your hormonal levels. It's important for your bones. It's important as you grow older. It's important for pretty much everything you do. It's important when you're shaking someone's hand. It's important when you fall. It is the backbone to a happy and healthy life. And how many times have you been in a hole and just did some exercise, strength training in particular? Man, like there is so much that is positive for you. Just doing two or three strength training sessions a week, okay, and I'd recommend it to everyone. And, in particular, I used to work in aged care for a bit. Yeah, it is chalk and cheese. The people who get older you know that's 70s and up.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And haven't been in the gym. To those who have, and it is scary.
Speaker 3:In terms of like what their mobility.
Speaker 1:Ability to get out of a chair. Yeah, like they're just life. So, yeah, I think there's a lot to it and we can take the long view, man, yeah.
Speaker 3:What's that? That is the long view, like how will you be when you're older? Yeah. And you think like, specifically, weight training is what can make that difference, not big cardio sessions.
Speaker 1:Man. The reality is we're in a bigger war against comfort. So, bigger picture any movement that you enjoy, it doesn't matter if it's skating, yoga, running, whatever. Yeah, if you start to go down that path, being like, right, how can I optimize? And there's so many biohackers and things out there at the moment, right, but yeah, if you were trying to optimize five hours in the week, you're like, seriously, for most people, how would I optimize those five hours? You'd definitely be including at least two strength sessions.
Speaker 3:Right 100%.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, I know the big one for me as I get older is that I know that when I'm doing regular weight training like I've heard that it does boost your testosterone, correct, yeah, like it keeps it, and I've never even thought about testosterone. It does, though until it's gone and until maybe you notice it's diminishing. You know, and I've just and like to be honest, I actually don't notice that it's diminishing. It hasn't changed any of my bodily functions, if you know what I mean. But everyone keeps saying, like in your 40s, your T levels drop by 40%, and all this and that. And then I hear about friends who can't get it up that easy, or they're taken by aggro and stuff. I'm like I don't want to be that guy. So, like, do you think weight training is the solution?
Speaker 1:To that problem in particular. It's probably out of my pay grade, bro, but I would say come on man doing hard shit gets you the body that's able to do hard shit.
Speaker 1:Hard shit gives you boners. And so, if you want the things like hdh and testosterone, human growth hormone, the serotonin and dopamine yeah, there is that part of it and generally that's where it's lacking. But don't forget the other part of it man, sleep, recovery, nutrition. And for me it's simplified and crystallized down to that tripod Good movement, good sleep, good nutrition. You nail those three, then we can talk. But like 80%, 90, 90 aren't nailing those three. Let's be honest right.
Speaker 3:So with what you do as an exercise or when you were an exercise physiologist, and even what you do now is more of a leader of exercise physiologists, is there a lot of discussion around diet? Yeah? Like I know you said it's not a big thing for you because you just burn fuel. It's massive. There's a lot of discussion on diet Like what's the main thing? Massive.
Speaker 1:What's the main thing? Sugar's the devil In one sentence eat real food. Okay, not too much. Don't snack. Cut out liquid calories. Yeah, you'll be all right. Do you hate carbs, bro? I'm not the extremist. I'm able to write programs for people who there and then present. In certain ways there is so much complexity to someone that you can't just write off carbs. I love carbs. I perform so well of carbs. Most athletes I know. You give them more carbs, they go better. But yeah, it's a very complex, individualized conversation.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, Good, like good executive response there. I love that Political.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. No, it's good I get it.
Speaker 3:It does make sense. Everyone's got different needs, right yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the thing that people aren't so good at.
Speaker 1:right now that I'm watching, you get one convincing podcaster, one convincing YouTuber, and they've got the next best thing I know. Yeah, it's hard, right, and it's convincing. And yeah, my job is really to stay at the forefront of like the evidence and make sure that we're innovating in the way that the results are showing, not that popular opinion or podcasters or whatever. And that's the hardest thing, man, Because, as you know, evidence lags behind. It lags behind five, 10 years sometimes as to what's actually happening at the forefront. So stepping into innovation and making sure we're navigating down the right pathways is massive.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and I think everyone needs to be on a journey with it and just trying what works for their body, and I actually feel like I've got to a place where I know what works for my body now.
Speaker 3:Like I went about 10 years ago, man, the whole paleo thing came out. Remember the paleo diet? And everyone just that was when people started going, oh, it's the carnivore diet. Like, oh, they paleo diet. And everyone just that was when people started going, oh, it's the carnivore diet. Like, oh, paleo diet, they just eat meat. Like from the paleolithic era. But it really wasn't that. It was really.
Speaker 3:The paleo diet was just really advocating for whole foods, like no grains, and a severe reduction in carbs, like complex carbohydrates, and getting your carbs from fruit and vegetables, like that should be your predominant source, and whatever. And oh man, I went deep on it and I went through these periods of time To this day, the fittest I've ever been and so healthy and razor sharp. But then I started leaning more towards like so I was like trying to get all my energy sources from good fats. I was like heaps of coconut oil, heaps of avocado, heaps of nuts and stuff like that. Yep, but then I realized that like and I just reduced all my carbs and it was. I was getting like really faint all the time and whatever. And uh, yeah, I think I made myself sick with it. But it was also very antisocial. I got to the point where I was like I'd go out for a dinner and it'd be like, oh, we're going to a wood-fired pizza place. I'm like, oh, do they have gluten-free base? You know?
Speaker 1:and shit like that. Yeah, it's a balance, man. I think that's been the centre of the conversation, right? It's just been about maintaining balance and with all of it, and that's been one of the biggest lessons as I've gone to fatherhood. It'll be one of the biggest lessons as I head out into what happens after. I'm never out of fatherhood, let's be honest, and nutrition is just one of those. Man, if you find yourself on a track that's heading off because some new fad has got you into the next big thing, I would say pay more attention to your body and how you feel than you should be to these guys.
Speaker 3:Pay more attention. Okay, that's right.
Speaker 1:You nailed it, man, you found out what worked and did it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and now my diet. I'm a lot more relaxed. I'm not saying cheat days, but what I regard as bad now isn't bad. What I used to think was bad 15, 20 years ago was like I'm eating Maccas every Saturday. But now bad is like I'm going to smash a whole gourmet wood-fired pizza at a nice restaurant. That's bad. You know what I mean. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've changed it and it's great man, yeah, anyway, yeah, it's been great man. We have had so much food delivered since we haven't cooked.
Speaker 3:Oh really, People are just making food for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to almost turn the meal train off because we're missing cooking, but it's been amazing the support and it's been interesting having other people's food too, is it?
Speaker 3:good, healthy food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like people aren't showing up with mackie d's, but, um, yeah, man, it's been an amazing but challenging time, and nutrition has also been just absolutely out the door. Yeah, so do as I say okay, not as I do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the one, bro. How are you at school? Was high school a good time for you best?
Speaker 1:time of life.
Speaker 3:Is that because all the chicks loved you no, definitely not I was a virgin until I was 17.
Speaker 1:I was so was I.
Speaker 3:You make it sound like it's old. That's old man, it's a good age. It's not old.
Speaker 1:The kids, these days are getting it done at like 11.
Speaker 3:No, don't even say that, dude. I've got a daughter, she's Sorry. Oh no, man.
Speaker 1:That's a complete joke. That's a complete joke, but they are growing up quick.
Speaker 3:They're not. How old is that young?
Speaker 1:No, they're not 12? I can't imagine. I don't know what it is these days. I don't want to know. Let's stay clear. Yeah, let's stay clear. But yeah, man, I think school for me was an incredible experience.
Speaker 3:I loved every.
Speaker 1:Never hear that, oh I'd spend my lunch times walking around hugging my favorite people around the school. It was just a weird time. I love school, you pop. I've been in the academy so I I was could remember things really well. Um, you keep saying the academy what do you mean? I just called it that because you called it that like what? Because your dad, there's just so much extra work by the time we got there, like my ability to recall and that sort of stuff was pretty good, so it was kind of cruisy.
Speaker 3:So wait up your dad's house was the academy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that what you called it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, no, we called it that in this podcast, did we? I don't remember doing that, and then that was probably where the foundation came from.
Speaker 3:But school was awesome, man, I loved it. Um terrified of chicks but loved it.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? You loved it like the social aspect of it, everything loved. Well, yeah, sure, boring lessons, but excelled. Man, I was like like good grades, yeah, yeah, yeah, straight to uni. Yeah, I was on like academics and sporting scholarships and like a different time in my life. But yeah, public education yeah, I went through. Public. Rugby was the thing that pulled me out of the Sunshine Coast and got me into the league with all the private school guys. Like that's how I got to uni, that's how Big yeah.
Speaker 1:When you look back on it, man, that was really what took me from my little town at Sunshine Coast and put me overseas and gave me some wings. So I'm not ungrateful, but yeah, I just don't know why I started.
Speaker 3:Rugby man, what position did you play? Guess, I don't know. Positions like 5'8", like Brett Kenny in Parramatta, I don't know.
Speaker 1:No, I was on the side of the scrum man, so number seven.
Speaker 3:Like halfback.
Speaker 1:It's like it's's on this. No, no, no, attached to the side of the scrum in rugby union there's extra guys on the side of the scrum do you ever?
Speaker 3:do you ever like? Oh man, because rugby union is like so much bigger than rugby league, isn't it? It's more of a world game.
Speaker 1:It's a gentleman's well, yeah, it's it's. Don't ask me why it's called that, but yeah, it's massive on the world stage. League is not I. Just look, man, listen. Don't ask me why it's called that, but yeah, it's massive on the world stage.
Speaker 3:The league is not I just look, man, listen, don't make me feel ignorant here, but like when you get tackled right, you know rugby league, they just play the ball and they get six. You know what do you call. It Tackles Six players. When you get tackled, it's just a big mess. What's happening there?
Speaker 1:She's just trying to kill people to get to the ball back.
Speaker 3:And that's it. There's no rule there. Just like get the ball off that dude. That just got tackled and what rip it out of his hand?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I noticed when they get tackled they try to roll on their side and then like what, push the ball Because?
Speaker 1:they're not allowed. Push the ball out, and then you can't touch it with your hands on the ground, and then there's a battle.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're not quick, you can just run straight over and demolish your opponents right, so it's just a constant battle to keep the ball.
Speaker 3:It's that raw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's raw, that's sick.
Speaker 3:It's tough Rugby Because like you, I guess guess, like you are someone that I've seen, like since I've known you, kind of like you train at an elite level. When I've seen you in the gym and I've always just been curious, like obviously you've got this background, but like what at this moment I know you've just had a child, but like, let's just say, like in the last year, like what is driving you to push yourself as hard as you do in the gym? Like I even seen it like yesterday, the day before, and as a warm-up you're doing all those muscle ups and stuff like what, what's actually driving you? Is it just because you're so accustomed to that standard of training or is it because you want to get a better body than you've already got? Is it?
Speaker 1:my fear is is not reaching my potential. That's my fear.
Speaker 3:So it's still there.
Speaker 1:But it's an internally driven thing. The first half of my life it was there, but it was insecurity that was driving it. Right Now it's coming from a place of just like, of wanting to just reach as close as I can to my potential and I just think it's a damn shame. And if the shame is coming from me being lazy in a workout, shame on you man. You're there to fucking work and for me, like it's not really a question, it's just like run towards the pain because it's always going to be painful. I'd just rather take the pain and put me in a place that's like way better in life.
Speaker 3:Because of how you feel immediately after.
Speaker 1:Your mindset in the gym is your mindset everywhere else. And, bobby, have you heard that Musashi quote? How you do anything is how you do everything. I've heard that. Yeah, so it's like that, right, but that is the adversity in my life right now. So that's the octane. Yeah, for a skater it might be going hard on big ramps, I'm not sure as a surfer charging big swell. Yeah, like that's like every. That's the edge. So so for me it's about finding my edge. I don't give a shit about other people. Find my edge and always go a little bit further every time.
Speaker 3:So every time you're in the gym you're just like okay One foot off the edge, that's in your mind. Am I really going as hard as I could be right now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, winning for me. As you know, I try to do something that scares me. Every year. This is the darkness thing, but last year was a marathon. The year before that was my first boxing match and all these things right. It's about I just want to find my edge and then just push out into the darkness a bit. And CrossFit's a sick place to do that. Right, because you have the opportunity every single time to just push off the edge a bit if you want to and you can cheat and you have the opportunity not to.
Speaker 3:Actually, while we we talk about that, I feel like I'm talking a lot this episode, but it doesn't matter now. Like yesterday, the workout was it was 40 minutes, you know, and you had five things like every minute, like every minute on the minute, and you had to do something. There's this and anyway. But you had an option every round to drop a minute and have a rest. So you only did four things, so, effectively, in a five-minute round. You had to do four minutes of activity if you wanted to have a break. So what I did was I didn't have a break. So every round for five minutes I did something. And so then, when it got to 35 minutes, I just finished early. I finished five minutes early.
Speaker 1:I actually saw this, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and which is legit because it means well, I didn't take my minute break. I've just pushed it all at the end of the workout. And man, why, like, everyone else is still working out, I'm finished. I just I didn't try hard enough, like I fucking cheated, like, and it just chewed me up all afternoon. I'm like I should have just did the full 40 minutes. And, yes, she didn't take a break, but I was like, no, no, I was allowed a break. I'm taking my five minutes.
Speaker 1:Bad. Yeah, that's it. So that feeling going home, looking in the mirror, doesn't matter what you've done that day. If you can look in the mirror and say to yourself honestly, with integrity, you won today, that's winning. It doesn't matter if you didn't win like that's winning right, and if you, there's little ways in which we try and escape to comfort, and I think that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid, because that's just as uncomfortable as probably going through the thing yeah, and yes, there was one of those days where I didn't win.
Speaker 3:I felt like I didn't win and I've had it before with other things, you know, and I'm like I've sworn I'll never do that again, you know. So, like things like the set of the day, like the wave of the day comes and you're in position and then at the last second you pull back. I mean everyone I think most serves have done that at least once and oh man, it will chew you up for fucking months. So now, if I am in that position and I've got the opportunity, I go, because the fear of getting hurt is less than the fear you're going to have afterwards for not going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that fear is normally a tiny slither of what the pain actually is Like. The pain that we're making up in our mind is much worse normally. That's what happened with me in public speaking man.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a bad one, isn't it? You mentioned that you don't like public speaking.
Speaker 1:I didn't, but you're such a good speaker I didn't last year. Okay, well, I could speak right. When I say public speak, I'm talking hundreds, thousands, like that kind of level is where I just was terrified.
Speaker 3:What did you have to do? What was?
Speaker 1:the scenario. What was the opportunity? Yeah, well, it was many, but part of the mission was setting up little guardrails to make sure that I wasn't going to slip back into my little comfort shell. So any speaking opportunity, I had to actively go and find speaking opportunities. I mean, I started off terrified, bro, physically shaking and, um, like heart rate it sucks. And when you, when the countdown time is coming, and the moment you look up and they're looking at you, that was just like something that was really difficult to work with. But yeah, I'd say like went really well. Man, like my last engagement was probably 900 people. What was it for? Do you mind me asking? Um, I was speaking about health. I was speaking about actually health conference.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, it was a, it was about mental health, but, um, yeah, I mean, the model of the story is what we've just talked about, right, yeah, doing the hard thing and yeah, that that for most of us right is like how did you get, how did you overcome that? You just always had it. What?
Speaker 3:public speaking. Yeah, um, I know it's there. I mean, I suffer from severe social anxiety, man, I really do. I don't go good in in groups of people. I don't, and I'm a teacher too. Um, standing in front of a group of students teenagers initially was really scary yeah you know, but not anymore.
Speaker 3:I don't know why, um. And then there's times you have to speak in front of the whole school like I don't know. It's like it's repetition. It gets easier and easier. It's just the more you do it like, the more you step into the fear.
Speaker 1:You are essentially a speaker. You think I guess, yeah, teaching your potty, yeah, I think it's a natural skill, probably for you, I don't know if it's natural.
Speaker 3:I have discovered through the podcast that I have a stutter Interesting. Yeah, because and I think for someone like you who said they want to improve their public speaking you need to sit and record your voice and then listen. And it's amazing when you listen to yourself in the third person what you pick up about yourself. Totally it's insane. Like I mean, you said you and your partner have a podcast. Yeah, do you want to like?
Speaker 1:promote it a little bit. Oh, if you answer it, it delves a little bit deeper into the relationship stuff that we've talked about. Yeah, right, so it's called the feelings meeting, but, um, yeah, I can't imagine the audience listening here is probably looking for a relationship potty. But if, if you're there, check it out, it's really talking about this idea that was given to us by Will Smith and Jada and they gave us the single best advice we ever got.
Speaker 1:That was set 30 minutes aside every week, called the feelings meeting. Sit down in the 30 minutes and talk about your feelings, talk about all the shit that wasn't brought up during the week, and release the pressure valve in a non-judgmental, non-reactional way. Okay, it doesn't sound that helpful. And then we started doing it all those little things that you that sink was left dirty and like not getting enough sex, and all of it can be brought up. And then the other person's like oh, thanks for sharing, I didn't know that. And the pressure is just released. Anyway, it's based on that premise. So it's like us going through some of the lessons we've learned, similar to your potty man Interesting, I love that.
Speaker 3:Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith right yeah, interesting, I thought they split up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but very, very conscious couple.
Speaker 3:Are they? I don't know much about them really. They seem interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think and like, obviously most of us see the other side of it and I don't know enough to be able to give you much more. But to say go and check out this, no, no, I would go more than that. I think a very conscious relationship to learn from.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny because relationships are the most important thing and everyone. Just it's like most people expect them just to happen, but they don't want to educate himself on them or learn about them. And it's the same with fatherhood, like my friend a good friend of mine put me on to um podcasts for dads on how to be a better dad. Yeah, dude, so all this shit that I'm regurgitating it's not mine, man, I'm just like no one's reinventing the wheel, but yeah, yeah, and that's what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like, for me, I see being a parent as the most important thing. It's more important to me than anything else. I do, but I don't. But so why am I not going to school for it, you know, but I went to school for other things, but I didn't go to school for the most important job and it's insane what I'm learning like constantly, especially as your children change and develop.
Speaker 3:You know, like um, you know, how I relate to my daughter is so much different to how I have to relate to my son. You know, they just have different needs. It's complex. Do you think you guys will have a second?
Speaker 1:I just look over to my left as you're talking and it's like this beautiful wall. It's a mural of your children's paintings. And one thing that I really liked kind of noticed when I first walked in was that positivity chart. Tell us about that.
Speaker 3:Yep. So I've got a kindness chart for my kids and so every time there's a list of things, examples of what constitutes kindness, they get a stroke. And every stroke is worth 20 cents. Oh, this is linked to incentives. That's money, it's bribery, dude, nice. So it's trying to flip the model. So it's not a deficit model. You know most parents function in the deficit model, like if you don't clean your room, you're getting grounded, or you're not getting dessert tonight. If you don't clean your room, you're getting grounded, or you're not getting dessert tonight if you don't eat your dinner. That's a deficit model.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of flipping it to that like positive behavior model. So it's like let's highlight the positives, reward the positives every opportunity we get. In my opinion, I think some parents take it too. There are parents that do that and they take it too far and it's like they start to ignore the negatives and just like oh, I can't ignore that. Oh, you did something positive, great, here's 20 cents like, for example. But I'm still in the bit old school mindset like oh man, I challenge my kids, if they do something wrong, I'll call them out for it massively. They're not growing up to be like mollycoddled, entitled brats who have no resilience.
Speaker 1:No fucking way, sorry, get passionate about this you must be the coolest teacher that your kids have.
Speaker 3:No, no, dude, I mean I'm always taking kids on for their behavior. One thing I've learned is that over time the kids respect you for it. I've seen it time and time again if I challenge your kids behavior especially teenagers, teenage boys especially they'll hate you and you have conflict. And it takes effort and every time they they come and thank you later.
Speaker 3:I had this one kid in year 12 and I gave him so much shit. I hassled him, I wasn't doing his work, I was on his case and actually I personally started to just not like this kid and I know he hated me. He leaves school. I thought, thank fuck, I'll never talk to that kid again, literally like five years later, this big dude comes to my staff room door. He's like is Shana Fruji here? I'm like, yeah, he's like it's Corey. He goes. I just want to say thank you so much. If it wasn't for you, I've just finished my apprenticeship in diesel mechanic or something and you taught me the meaning of like hard work and resilience, and thank you so much. No one else did that for me. I was like, oh fuck, I thought you were coming to bash me.
Speaker 1:So anyway, do you know what came up for me when you were saying that trigger warning? You know how your friend probably feels now. The one who's been that's the. You're gonna thank him one day if it's the right stuff. It's complicated, it sounds it Bro. Your parenting and from what I've seen with the kids, is like aspirational. Oh thanks man. It's such a nice thing to see and, man, I'm just so excited to have my little boy running around with your guys soon, dude, it's going to happen 100%.
Speaker 3:They're not that far apart. Hey, um, were you someone that aspired to want to have children when you were younger?
Speaker 1:of your own. I could never see my life without them. What about you?
Speaker 3:I never wanted kids. I was never a kid guy. I was never. I never cared. I was like I don't have kids yeah man, I, and then I had him I changed everything.
Speaker 1:I feel you it scared the shit out of me totally man. I'm selfish dude one thing jordan peterson said on this topic which struck was perfect. He goes the best time for someone like us to have a kid, because you won't be ready, it'll be a and it will be the best surprise of your life because, for the first time in your life, you will love something more than you.
Speaker 3:He's the most misquoted man on earth, but yeah, it's good call. No, he is so misquoted.
Speaker 1:So misunderstood from my perspective.
Speaker 3:Have you read his book the Twelve Rules for Living? Both of them. Both of them.
Speaker 1:Both of them Is there.
Speaker 3:two is there I only read the one, the controversial one, yeah, and I was like I read it and I was like it's not that controversial, like he backs everything up with research or case studies.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, he's not just throwing out big ideas. He throws out big ideas and then says I'm throwing this big idea out because this happened in this and this research shows da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Speaker 1:Totally. Yeah, I think a lot of the arguments and attacks are not that well founded in the deeper philosophical works that are detailed in his books and podcasts and so on, but it is an inflammatory, inflammatory place, isn't it? We've got this weird like side culture that are like loving him and not talking to girls and we've got like, yeah, just I come in at a really inflammatory time in the world where you're not even really allowed to say male and female, like it's a very inflammatory space right now. Right, in fact, that was one of the things that blew up with him. He refused to go down that path and it's just a really volatile time in the world.
Speaker 3:But there's a lot of change yeah, and going back to these core relationships of a mother and father with the, the nuclear household that everyone aspires. He came in at a time when I think a lot of men are confused about their role in that family unit. They are genuinely lost in it because the generation before, the roles were more defined, and whether they're misogynistic or whether they're sexist, that's to be. You know, that's another argument. But the roles were more defined like the man goes and works, the woman stays at home, raises the kids, like it was very clear-cut, but it's not as clear-cut, you know, as it used to be. And so then, when he came in and starts sprouting some of these things, these, these ideas, I think it just challenged so many people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the whole idea is challenging, right? Men, kids, boys are being outperformed by girls in every grade. They're generally more emotionally intelligent. We've come from a model which was great when we needed safety, and we're going through wars where the man was in charge, but now we're not in a where the man was in charge. But now we're not in a time of safety. Generally speaking, we're in a time of abundance and we have a really confused dynamic, with life getting better and better, but mental health getting worse and worse. We have these beautiful things and information and technology at our fingertips and life just keeps getting harder and we are saying relationships are the most important things. Yet we're all struggling with connection and we're all lonely. It's a wild time to be alive.
Speaker 3:It's so nice to hear you say that. I think about it a lot. I mean, in my time on this earth it's the strangest time I've ever recalled, you know, and I just I don't know.
Speaker 3:I have to really work hard not to fall into negativity about the direction of our species. You know it's just dark, but it's actually also been liberating because I'm just like well, I'm determined for my remaining time in this realm to be magical and I know there's bad stuff going on in the world. I'm only going to work on what I can control, you know, and what are my priorities? And I think it's maturity, it's like I'm very clear on what my priorities, priorities, and I think it's it's maturity, it's like I'm very clear on what my priorities are. Now it's, and it's so relieving. So then it's like I just have to worry about this and that I'm happy.
Speaker 1:it's good man wow, man, I mean, it's just, it's an absolute journey to get to that place. There's this model, like have you heard of the stages of growth? So there's, I mean, just five stages of growth. Probably teach it in school. The fourth is adolescent and the fifth is adult, right, gotcha? Do you know the? The universally kind of accepted definition between those two are adolescents do things as a means to an end, adults only do things as an end, and that ends. Generally does that make sense? So an adolescent will walk out there on the street, see money on the grounds, know that they could get away with it, and they get away with it and take it. An adult who's onboarded the lessons of honesty and integrity and actually knows what virtue is because virtue is a secret to happiness he would never use that money as a means to an end. He would always turn it in. And that step into alignment with our values that you've just described is the transition into adulthood, and not many people ever get that.
Speaker 3:Oh, thanks, man for clarifying. That's interesting, so interesting. I didn't ever get that. Oh, thanks, man for clarifying. That's interesting, so interesting. I didn't think of that. Yeah, man, I also and you'll find this as a new father I've realized, now I've got kids myself, that I've been sitting on the fence for a lot of big picture topics and things that can potentially be detrimental to my kids. I hadn't taken the time to really work out where, where I stand with certain issues that are occurring in our society. And now, when I now I've had kids, I'm like you do start to look at some of those issues that you were once quite complacent and just chill about. Now you're like, hang on a second complacent and just chill about. Now you're like, hang on a second, that's going to actually impact on my kids and I need to actually take a side here and actually decide how I'm going to explain this stuff to my kid.
Speaker 3:I have a variety of things. I mean I'm reluctant to go down that rabbit hole on here because I don't want to turn it into that discussion, but it's linked to some like the erosion of morals in our society. Okay, so, like I'm going to give you one example. Like there's a new acronym that's been coined and it's called MAP. Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:And it's the new term they're using, and it's and it's minor attracted person. So that's the new term they use, instead of pedophile like they're. They're not a pedophile, they're a minor attracted person. So, yeah, have you not heard that?
Speaker 1:what's the and it?
Speaker 3:will because that's their identity. That's their identity like that's their sexual orientation, yeah, so I have things like that and that the, the slow integration of these type of things, have made me start to be more considered in what communities I'm actually advocating for.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, that makes total sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, things like that. Yeah, it's so complex, but in the past to relate it back to parenting, I wouldn't have given it two thoughts. I'm like it's just a new acronym for an old term that's been described to describe someone that's attracted to children. But now it's like no, that's fucking serious to me. But now it's like no, that's fucking serious to me. I don't want that normalized in any fucking way. Yeah, you know, so I've got a daughter. You know what I'm saying. Like it's heavy.
Speaker 1:it's heavy and there's no clear way through, because we're living in a place where it's all about respect and respecting others in a way that, in this situation, is so intricate and complex and controversial that it worries me putting it in the hands of a politician who, let's be honest, probably isn't trained in the philosophy that needs to be understood to make these decisions, and it's very scary watching this play out. But we do also need to change and pivot and transition and grow as a society because, just like you said well, that nuclear family served us well for a while. What's the next level?
Speaker 1:I think we're going to come, we're going to hit a few drastic mistakes, and we're going to, but we do need change. Yeah, and right now there's just change everywhere and it's unsettling, right, because we don't like change.
Speaker 3:Well, everyone's freaking out. I just see people very disorientated with their morals right now. They are. We are going through a huge time of transition as a society and as a species, and what we tolerate and what we don't tolerate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, as a parent, from what I gathered, the way you're teaching that is modeling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, man. And that's where it makes me want to be a better man, like more than ever, like I've always wanted to be the best I can be. But now it's like my children are highlighting to me that maybe I haven't developed. I'm questioning my own moral compass. What do I consider right and wrong? What's acceptable, what's not acceptable? It's like it's really challenging me. I'm going through it right now. And's acceptable, what's not acceptable? It's like it's really challenging me.
Speaker 1:I'm going through it right now and I think that's important. Yeah, it's important to work out now. Hang on. Why do I have this belief of me liking rugby? Why, do I? Why is this good? Yeah, and and about everything? Yeah, because so much of what we know isn't the cold hard fact of virtue that we think it was. But so much is valuable and I am worried about losing some of the beautiful things we've had in the past. Yeah, like back in the day, virtue and honour was everything. What's it now?
Speaker 3:That's really not. There is it.
Speaker 1:You don't think I mean. The way it's respected is in friendships and one-to-one trusting friendships. You, that's how you build trust right 100, but that's not how you become the president. Yeah, that's a.
Speaker 1:That's a snaky way to get to the top of it and I guess, like, yeah, one of my qualms with it and all of this is one of the ways to the top is someone who might want power for the wrong reasons. Because, I'm telling you, the good people out there aren't willing to navigate what you have to do, for example, in the American political system to go and be president, yeah right, and so the wrong people are rising to the top and making the wrong decisions, and it's scary to watch this play out at this point in time I can't agree more.
Speaker 3:man, again, going back to kids, like you know, your kid's gonna do this to you, like how would you answer this question, daddy? What is what's a genocide? You know, like they're, they're at that age now, like you know, my daughter's nine and a half. It's a genocide, dad. How would you answer that to a nine-year-old? To a nine-year-old, because they're hearing this all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:For me at this stage, I do think awareness and education is the kindest thing to do. I think gone are the days of mummy and daddy. What is it? The geese flew in and that's how you were born, or whatever it was Like. I do feel like that part of me is going to lean towards education and respecting their maturity up until a point right, because I think exposure to certain things should be avoided yeah, but also we've talked about this on the podcast with other people too in terms of like you also, you can't wrap them in cotton wool, and it's kind of naive, because it's almost like you're doing them a disservice by not exposing them to some bad stuff too.
Speaker 1:Oh but I wish my fairly hard childhood. We didn't even go into it, but I was sleeping on the grounds. I didn't go out with a TV, didn't you? So I've just had a really different upbringing, right, I wish it was harder. You wish it was harder. I wish it was harder. Interesting, like don't you, don't you wish it was harder, Because it just forges you into it, because the world's hard. Yeah, the world is hard and we're not forged on the couch.
Speaker 3:So well, you guys lived pretty rough for a while there when you were kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when we first moved over from New Zealand to Australia, yeah, that was like just we went from being fairly well off to super poor. So, yeah, we grew up pretty much without toys and TV, second hand, like uniforms on the ground, my bro, like that sort of thing. And that was also the thing that really put me into the trajectory of like whoa, I, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3:Yeah and it came well.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna succeed. I wouldn't say success was the thing, but I'm gonna take my power back and it started off from that motivation and probably finished in a way where I'm now trying to step away from the light and step away from the ego. I just and spent my first half of my life building a healthy ego and I feel like I'm spending the second half of it getting rid of it.
Speaker 3:Yes, brother, yeah you feel that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, dude, because you are humble. I mean, you know, if I had to immediately judge you, I think you know you're like you're a good-looking dude and you're like, you're muscly and as another guy, like that can be challenging and I could have like easily, like you know, um sort of iced you out a bit and just like be too cool, try to too cool guy, because it's like, oh, that guy's up himself and stuff. But then then you meet you and you're like you're super humble and kind and like accommodating and friendly and talkative. It's like, fuck, I just want to hate this dude for being too good looking.
Speaker 1:You, you know I wouldn't say that man. But yeah, the battle for me is I'm just trying to be normal. My first half of my life I was trying to be excellent, right, trying to just be. I wanted to stand out and my survival strategy was like look at me, I'm great, and I'm aware of the other side too. Look me, I'm doing bad, I'm a victim. But for me, I think the sweet spot that middle journey is are the battles to be normal. I don't need to stand out. What is? Where is that coming from? And, yeah, be real. And that's been a challenging, humiliating journey of one realization after the other, isn't it?
Speaker 3:yeah, and it's interesting because you said you don't have social media, or you barely use it or you don't have it yeah, bro, like I mean again, take a step out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, think about the things we've talked about. Think about the things that we value connection, face-to-face connection. We don't care about screen time. I hate highlight reels. I hate fake living. I hate the transient of some and I understand there's good on it, but for me it was quite evidently a negative feeling every single time I got off my social media. Interesting, so it's much. I mean life's much. Bobby tells me my life is much more simple not having social media. But I do miss out, right, I do miss out on knowing you had a podcast. I do miss out on meet a friend, probably never going to see them again. It's a different way in today as well, but it's pretty. It's pretty common too. Man, like there's this new generation man are also super aware of the social dilemma and super aware of what we expose ourselves to and when what we expose ourselves to is a curated silo controlled by china. That's something you got to think twice about. Tiktok is yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:Anyway yeah, man and um, I would say that social media is a sword and it's got a beautiful wicked edge that can cause damage, but it can be used to protect the village too. And I've just decided that for me, it's definitely net negative, despite the opportunity for me to have an influence positively and to learn from Instagram and Facebook. And you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's really refreshing to hear someone say they don't want to stand out in a society of just everyone trying to stand out on social media, like everyone wants to be seen and get some.
Speaker 1:I've been there, bro, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you probably could, like, you know, really, if you were one of those guys shirt off in the gym, posting workout clips all the time of the badass shit you do in the gym, man, like you would like in this you know superficial realm of, and what would me feeling special do? Well, again, like for yourself, I don't know, like would it help you feel more validated, could you monetize yourself, you know? Could it be like, hey, I can monetize me going to the gym and I can do what I love and earn money doing it. That notion drives a lot of people, man. It's like, yeah, I'm going to monetize just by posting gym selfies and gym little workout clips, yeah like I totally understand that.
Speaker 3:That's intoxicatingicating, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, but for me, at what cost? To lose your, lose your grounding? Yeah, at what cost? Definitely, I've. I've had this battle and thought my partner, bobby, runs social media marketing right like this is her game and I'm all for it for everyone else, man. But I think, with where the world's going and what AI and what we know, the biggest companies in the world are mining data. That's what they're doing on social media. Man, it's data and we know they're mining it for a reason and we know everything's about to blow up. People already got chips in their brains connected to computers. Guess what the next step is? Integrating ai. Guess what that has your data, guess what the world's going to. So, yeah, just like taking a wee step down that way, I'm just like, yeah, I want to get into nature it's end times, it's end times, it's end times.
Speaker 3:Like going back to the tiktok thing. I mean, apparently I mean I don't have tiktok but the terms and conditions of tiktok are At 10 times. Like going back to the TikTok thing. I mean, apparently I mean I don't have TikTok but the terms and conditions of TikTok are insane. Like as soon as someone creates an account and presses, okay, most people don't know, and someone did a podcast where they actually read the terms and conditions verbatim and you listen and did you know? The second, you sign up.
Speaker 3:Even once you've given TikTok permission to your microphone most people your camera, but you're also giving them permission to your keystrokes forever. So do you know what keystrokes means? So that means they can see anything that you've typed, whether it's a text message, email. Anytime you use keystrokes, they have it. Now they can can forever. If you're not telling me this is modern-day warfare, right, like I don't want to be the conspiracy guy, but that is insane. And like people are sending the most. I mean we send private messages. We send private emails on the most confidential shit. We email banks our details about our bank accounts. We've given it to TikTok, you fucking moron. Sorry, I'm swearing a lot today, but, yeah, like is it end times? I don't know. And I also heard a conspiracy theory about vaping the other day. Have you heard that one?
Speaker 1:I just don't even want to know.
Speaker 3:Okay, I won't tell you.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised you stopped there, yeah, but I feel like we could go down. My end game is actually with that again. We don't want to go down this dark road, but it's. I just read mo gordat's book. He was the chief, the ceo, ex-ceo of like google innovation arm. He was the one who came up with AI really him and his team and in his book he stepped away from them because he's just outlined where it's going artificial intelligence. And that has frightened me, dude. I don't think I've actually ever been scared of something until him mapping out what's about to happen.
Speaker 3:Have you seen Terminator 2?
Speaker 1:No, I won't get to that. I won't get to that basically, but what it will get to, I won't go into it too much. If you use this analogy, it helps highlight it. Imagine Einstein and his IQ and his intellect looking down at a fly. So the same distance between those two consciousness will be the fly and that will be Einstein in the blink of an eye. In the next 10 years I will be Einstein and we'll be the fly.
Speaker 3:Think about that, like it's going to be that much smarter than us and we've never had something smarter than us.
Speaker 1:Think about what that means. An elephant gets shot in the wildlife park. It doesn't turn to old man and go oh, there's an ivory sport and this is the complex way and why we got shot. They just die and they have no idea because something more intelligent is having their way right. Imagine just die and they have no idea because something more intelligent is having their way right. Imagine that situation coming very soon, and I'm not saying it's going to be negative, although he does point out some worrying things. So my what main worry about the kids right now is about data, and so it feeds into that conversation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, and there's rabbit holes and there's access to this information and we're just touching on these topics and I honestly want to encourage people if you're listening and some of the topics we've just touched upon go on a rabbit hole of research and educate yourself. Go down those rabbit holes and delve into the stuff about AI and delve into the stuff about terms and conditions from TikTok. Go and do it yourself. I don't have a fact checker on hand, but these are some real concepts that are out there and ai in particular, isn't just a key concept.
Speaker 1:It is going to revelation, revolutionize the world more than the mobile phone. Like it's going to be big. So, yeah, that's a big one.
Speaker 3:I'd encourage you to read about do you use chat gpt every day? Same. Yeah, I get it to proof my emails. If, if I've got a sensitive email to a parent, for example, and I'll write the email and then I'll go, can you just check this and then go? Oh, it says to me, oh, I think you can improve the tone a little bit and it changes the tone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Adds a few words to make it sound a bit friendlier. Are you training? Yeah, well, we've started integrating it into assessment tasks, where we actually have software that can detect if a task has been submitted using AI. But then the kids have even worked out a way to get around that. But then, as a teacher, you have to become more intuitive and know your students and go oh, this kid's like I've seen the tasks he does. But then all of a sudden he produces this essay that's like written amazingly. It's like amazingly. It's like you didn't fucking write that, it's ai like you've just you've just pumped it and can you blame the kid?
Speaker 1:though, if I have that as a kid, the problem and the worry is, if I had that as a kid, there'd be no way. I just learned as much as I did without it. Right, like you don't have to learn now. I didn't have to learn maths once I got to a certain point because I had a calculator. Like you don't have to learn now. I didn't have to learn maths once I got to a certain point because I had a calculator. So why should they have to learn? And that's the the worry, right? Well, what happens if the computer crashes, bro, yeah, you gotta learn.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's a tricky one yeah, and that's what I remember, like this principal I work for at the moment, he he researched it a lot and he was like it's not a matter of if you use AI or don't use AI, it's a matter of the new skill is developing your ability to maximize your use of.
Speaker 1:AI.
Speaker 3:I was like oh shit, let's go yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I've done four or five courses on it.
Speaker 3:Oh, you have.
Speaker 1:Bro, it's like why not? Ai is not going to take your job? People using AI is.
Speaker 3:I've heard that too.
Speaker 1:So it's like, well, okay, let's sharpen that ax up a little bit, and it definitely helps.
Speaker 3:Dude like have you seen the movie Her? No, haven't you seen it with Joaquin Phoenix? No, it won the Academy Award for Best Picture a year back. I'll add it to the list, dude. It's so far ahead of its time. It's probably 10 years old and it's about a dude living in modern day world, but not too far ahead, you know. And he has an earpiece like an airpod. This was before airpods were made, mind you.
Speaker 3:So the people that made this movie were fucking I don't know what planet they're on. They're so smart and, um, he has an ai voice in his head, like Siri. But he develops a relationship with Siri and Siri. The more they talk, siri's getting smarter and smarter and then they fall in love. And he falls in love with, like this Siri character, you know, and then eventually she dumps him and he's devastated and heartbroken. He got dumped by a robot, you know, but it became really common in the society for guys. There's this lonely guy in the city and just had this voice in his ear and he's just like in love and they're talking all the time. And you know she's like oh, I'm just going to write you a piece of classical piano music, I'm just going to work it out. And she works it out in 10 seconds and then, all of a sudden, she leaves him because he wasn't smart enough and she hooks up with another robot. It with another robot. It's fucking insane. It's the best movie.
Speaker 1:Wow, and that's happening. Well, dude, I'm looking for an AI girlfriend right now.
Speaker 3:It's a way less hassle. You seen that robot they released last week.
Speaker 1:What you seen, that robot they released last week. No, it's like fully conscious and it's integrated chat, gpt level AI and real-time vigilant auditory systems. So it's this robot saying from this guy and he's like what's in front of you, looks around, he's like, oh, it's some dinner plates and he pours some rubbish. He goes, oh, and you've just poured some rubbish. And then he's like well, what's the next obvious thing to do? I'll probably clean it up, stack the dishes, put the thing. He's like okay, well, can you do that while um answering this complex question? Yeah, okay, I'm just like it's happening bro.
Speaker 3:Man, well, listen, it's been epic and it's been such a pleasure hanging out with you, and I'm aware of the time and I'm aware that you're probably going to be working up numerous times this evening, so you know, thanks for being on. Is there anything else you want to say? Like you got it all out.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man, winding conversation, but, yeah, appreciate your time, appreciate what you're doing and you know how you were worrying about your impact on the world. Bro, you're having such a good impact. Keep going, thank you brother.
Speaker 3:Love you man. And yeah, I'm stoked. I've got some coffee for you too, just to keep you up. So, yeah, anyway, cheers out, shout out to the guys at Belmont for sending us a bunch of coffee. It's sick, I had some this morning. So cheers to you, my friend, cheers bro, cheers you, mr Austin Smith, everyone Bye.